Is John Piper's View of Final Justification Biblical? | Theocast Clips

In this clip from: "Do John Piper and Doug Wilson Obscure Faith Alone?," Jon and Justin discuss how the Final Justification teachings of John Piper are far closer to the affirmations of the Council of Trent in Catholic Theology than a Biblical view of Justification rooted in scripture.

Every generation has to come to grips with the gospel. The imputation of the righteousness of Christ to sinners--as our whole and only righteousness--has often been under assault in the history of the church. It is in our day in the form of the Federal Vision and the teaching of final justification. Jon and Justin engage with both of these errors today in an effort to clarify and defend the heart of the gospel, which is the righteousness of Christ counted to sinners.

Semper Reformanda: Jon and Justin go into more depth on the Federal Vision and then contend for the importance of confessions of faith, as well as the safety provided by a sound theological framework.

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[matOpera]

The issue is deeper than this. If Paul taught a gospel where we are not judged by our own works on the Day of Judgment to determine our eternal destiny, then he explicitly contradicted Jesus’ recurring teaching (Matt 7:21, 12:37, 16:27, 19:29, 25:31–46; John 5:28–30; Rev 2:23, 22:12). If Paul taught a different doctrine, then he was simply wrong. Jesus has the absolute right to define His own gospel, and He spoke with absolute clarity on this issue—a clarity which exceeds most everything in Paul.

Fortunately, Paul never let go of the notion of a judgment according to works (Rom 2:6–11, 2 Cor 5:10), and he understood the Spirit to be the agent that supplied us with the good works which identify us as sons of God on the Day of Judgment (Gal 6:7–10, Rom 8:12–14). Since it is the Spirit at work within us by Christ’s self-sacrifice, then we can no longer claim credit, our transformed life is by grace through faith. The dichotomy isn’t between “our performance matters” and “our performance doesn’t matter.” Instead, it’s “I cannot perform by myself” (see Rom 7:13–25); “I need the empowerment of God’s Spirit.”

This is completely compatible with justification by faith.

[colenorville]

So, I am just now seeing this channel and I am somewhat taken aback by a video claiming that Piper's theology is unbiblical...while offering no explicit Biblical proof. I affirm Calvinistic theology (perhaps not "reformed" by your definition), and I have benefitted greatly from Piper's writings, as have many who are more Reformed than I (see the Westminster and Reformed Seminary grads and professors who contribute to Desiring God).

What explanation do you offer for Rom. 8:13? Is it necessary for Christians to oppose the works of the flesh in their lives in order to be saved?

[joefrost]

Romans 4:5... would seem to end the argument. This is what happens when someone does not "rightly divide".

[cbwilson]

Can you distinguish from what you find wrong with Piper and Luther's written statement that we are saved by faith alone but not by a faith that is alone, referenced below?
“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.” ― : Motivational Notebook, Journal, Diary (110 Pages, Lined 6 x 9) Paperback – November 14, 2019.

[chasekrug]

On 0:35-1:20, you're simply misunderstanding Piper's view of how works relate to final justification.

Here he is answering the question, "Will We Be Finally 'Saved' By Faith Alone?"

"Now, the question rises, How do our good deeds, then, fit with justification and final salvation? My answer is — and it’s the answer of the entire mainstream of the Reformed tradition, and really not just Calvinists would talk this way; many others would as well — *works play no role whatsoever in justification, but are the necessary fruit of justifying faith*, which confirm our faith and our union with Christ at the last judgment. God can make a public pronouncement with a view to these works confirming the faith, *which alone unites us to Christ*, who is alone the foundation of our acceptance as perfect in God’s sight.

Here’s what the Westminster Confession says from 350 years ago: 'Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification' — distinguishing instrument from basis — '*yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but works by love*.'" (Piper, emphasis mine)

This isn't even close to Session VI, Canon XXIV. Piper and WCF are saying precisely what Trent is anathematizing. They're saying "that said works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof" (Canon XXIV). For Piper and WCF, on the final day, good works serve as the necessary evidence - not the grounds - of our justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

[Doc]

If Piper is adding works to salvation that is anathema to anything that would be counted as biblical. Book of Romans is the proof

[ephesians__]

Piper literally sounds like what I was taught as a Catholic. I think some of this stuff creeping back into Protestantism has to do with the uncharitable cartoons of Catholicism people have in their heads. If you are really clear about both theological systems, it becomes clear that there is hardly even daylight between Lordship/Federal Vision/Final Justification and Catholic understandings of this stuff. Part of why I am Lutheran and not a Calvinist is that I do understand that the gospel can coexist with quite a lot of confusion, in fact it has for most of Church history, so I am not prepared to accuse Catholics or Protestant Workists of not being saved, but if they are it is in spite of these laborious/weird theological systems "they shall drink poison and it shall not harm them" not because of them. We are saved by faith alone. The "quality" of faith is tested by WHO it is IN, not by whether or not you have successfully given up kissing boys, getting drunk, falling asleep at church, or being racist, or whatever other thing you can name here as a sin that shocks you so much you cannot imagine a believer getting up to it regularly. By GRACE through FAITH. The end. Very Simple.

[foscavapi]

The faith is stimulated with works Hebrews 10, 24-30

[kaioken]

Don't you believe that God makes your choice to believe for you?

[samuelrosenbalm]

We bear our fruit by remaining in the vine. The fruit does not save. It is a necessary result from abiding in the One who does save. Apart from Him, I can do nothing. But in Him, by Him, and through Him, I can do all things for Him. Jesus Christ is EVERYTHING. He doesn't merely lead to salvation - He IS salvation, for all who exalt and cling to Him. Those who claim to belong to Him but practice and excuse sin are LIARS. Those to whom God has drawn - who love Him, exalt Him in all things. Those who try and pervert the grace of God by claiming sin can be kept and freely practiced are under damnation. "Are you without sin?", says the wicked. "We all sin." Yes, but the issue is the heart. God sees all. He knows those who are following Him out of the sins they hate, and those who only pretend to follow, while they wallow in the sins they love. We believe in Jesus, who came to save His people from their sins. They believe in a false Jesus, who saves his people from righteousness, so that they might keep their sin. They are utterly deceived.

[Mando-dk]

Piper’s theology is Roman Catholicism without the hope of purgatory.

[socratesfriend]

No, it sounds like James, "Faith without works is dead" Oh Man James sounds like Rome!
So when you see a person starving by the side of the road do you say God bless you and move on in faith that he will be taken care of, or do you feed the person? And no you cant spend your life feeding people expect salvation either. It has to be connected to faith. How bout that Hebrew Chapter by faith Noah built an arc and on and on they all performed some action connected to faith.

[medicchrist]

Another quote from John Piper - "Be killing your sin. You are not saved by faith alone." Sorry, but that is heresy and a total false gospel. Thanks for talking about this, brothers. It doesn't matter how popular a person is, or what their celebrity status. We should not be intimidated away from calling out false gospels, and heresy -

"If EVEN WE, or an angel from heaven, preaches to you another gospel than the one we have preached to you, let them be accursed."

Love you, John and JP.

[dianaknapp]

We went to a church that taught this… which is full of pietism and a belief that we sanctify ourselves and each other.

[shannonadams]

Piper is, thank God, extremely zealous for people to know that God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him. Although he almost sounds like you have to earn salvation in the end, all he's saying is that works matter as evidence you've been saved and like Calvin says, you can't have justification without sanctification. God ensures the saint will not only be justified but sanctified and finally glorified. The saint is never sinless this side of heaven, although God sees him as sinless in Christ, but God certainly and finally completes the work God starts in the saint this side of heaven. and then the saint is glorified after death in Christ forever

[tompark]

“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.” ― Martin Luther :)

[bmbinney]

Piper did not say what Rome stated at Trent. To equate the two is false. Listen to Piper himself define what he was saying. I have no problem with it.

[lhinton]

@Theocast, Dear brothers, the revelation of the Scriptures and the teaching of the Church is that salvation is past, present, and future. Salvation belongs to the Lord. We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved if we abide in Jesus by God’s grace. Both Romans 2:1-13 and Galatians 6:7-10 teach that it is those who do good works in the Spirit in Christ who inherit eternal life. Jesus said those who do the will of the Father inherit eternal life (Matt 7:21). Every passage in the NT about final judgment reveals that we are judged according to works (Matthew 16:27, 2 Cor 5:9-10). Faith is completed and made alive by works of charity in Christ (James 2). When we comes to Jesus for justification we have no good works and can never earn salvation. Jesus is our Savior. God justifies the ungodly freely. He justifies us freely by His grace (Romans 3:21-26), there is an increase of justification in Christ by the Spirit (Romans 5:21; 6:16, 22-23; 8:1-13), and then we are finally saved/justified (Romans 2:13, 5:10, 13:11; Gal 5:6). In other words, “I no longer live but Christ lives in me” (Gal 2:20). It is not Jesus plus, it is Jesus in His Body.

[TheCannonofMohammed]

John Piper? I really wish I could just forget what you did to the prolife community. I can’t. Why? Because you were just, well, mean. Imagine working for almost 50 years to save children from the abortionist’s blade and right when we’re on the very cusp of success have a pastor announce that he thinks we’re “presumptuous”. Presumptuous because we care more about human life than the pride you saw in one man. (And all you have to do is apologize. That you cannot shows YOU to be the one with a pride problem. Just ask forgiveness!)