Hubris & Chaos: A Conversation with Rory Stewart (Episode #352)

Sam Harris speaks with Rory Stewart about the fraying world order. They discuss the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the problems with nation building, cultural ignorance, tolerance for corruption, our catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan, the role that Islam played in our failures in Afghanistan and Iraq, conspiracy theories, the influence of social media, cults of martyrdom, the war in Ukraine, the age of populism, Trump and the future of NATO, Brexit, the current state of politics, GiveDirectly, and other topics.

Rory Stewart is a leading thinker on international affairs and development currently serving as Special Advisor to GiveDirectly, which delivers cash directly to the world’s poorest households. Stewart was a member of the British Parliament for almost a decade, where he served as secretary of state for international development, prisons minister, minister for Africa, development minister for the Middle East and Asia, and minister for the environment. In addition to his work with GiveDirectly, Rory Stewart is also the co-host of The Rest is Politics podcast and author of "How Not to Be a Politician."

Twitter: @RoryStewartUK

February 4, 2024

[pdken]

Sam Harris and Rory Stewart - brilliant.

[stevendurrant]

Glad more outside the UK will hear Rory. He’s well to the right of me, but a truly good guy with so much knowledge of the Middle East and politics.

[gmatic]

For me, this is easily the best episode of the last 6-12 months.

[domsnow]

I love Rory‘s podcast. He’s a fascinating person.

[GeorgeGreece]

I think it’s becoming more and more not possible to not be a member. This episode is going to force me to subscribe!

[tekannon]

Rory Stewart shines a light on why western nations got it wrong in trying to help developing nations find their feet.

[JamesAgans]

Sam, Afghanistan is a country of disparate mostly uneducated tribes. It has never had a central government. That makes it pretty much impossible to
" Nation Build " there.

[diane]

Great, 2 great men. Love Rory, he's 100% genuine, he was our local MP in Cumbria

[kayewadland]

Best PM we never had! What a missed opportunity😩
To think that clown Boris Johnson beat him to the top job!! Unfathomable

[skiboltskie]

Rory Stewart is one of those sensible humans who have the ability to make great changes in world politcs if given the chance

[SummitBidTech]

This the episode Rory referenced in his own podcast where he said Sam “would not let it go” regarding how he feels jihadism is more relevant than Rory’s view that radical nationalism is, as threats go.
I’ve listened several times now and I’d say that’s a regrettable exaggeration that unjustly maligned Sam. Rory’s a great intellectual and I hope he’ll correct that mis characterization.

[shelleyscloud]

Nice to see Rory breaking out of his bubble a bit. Be even nicer if he did it in his own podcast which I’ve now sadly entirely given up on!

[PaulRamen]

His podcast "the rest is politics" is great :)

[DavidBrown-tsus]

If only Rory had won the Tory leadership, what a very different country we might have

[lonecandle]

I'm doubtful that we could have just kept a light footprint in Afghanistan and support a government friendly to use with just a light footprint. I think our experience in Afghanistan showed that lightly supporting a friendly government leads to that government losing more and more territory. The whole point to the surge was that low numbers of foreign forces weren't enough to stop the slow collapse of the Afghan government.

[BongoMCee]

ayyy was hoping for this crossover, will you go on rest is politics also I hope?

[SkyGlitchGalaxy]

18:00
"Women in these villages had NEVER been more than 3 HOURS WALK from there villages, it was a WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL country"
There is something very very off with people like Rory. I get the impression he likes being a novelty in these places. Afghanistan is hell on earth, but somehow, a wonderful place. That makes no sense.

[SkyGlitchGalaxy]

If the Chinese ever get a mind to go into Afghanistan, you will see nation building. They dont play around.

[Mis-AdventureCH]

I recall all too well seeing the "Children's Crusade" that was the Coalition Provisional Authority show up in Baghdad. Mostly Capitol Hill staffers on 12 week resume booster tours running organizations or initiatives with fancy sounding names but were really nothing more than bloviating nonsense. The Iraqi's were like, "What the F....?" All I could do was shrug and try to look sympathetic.

[devalapar]

Afghanistan is geographically so isolated that it will never become a liberal and capitalist country. The US had to import everything it needed to build the roads and the infrastructure. There was simply nothing in Afghanistan.
Also Afghanistan doesn't have river systems that would connect villages. That's why all these regions are disconnected from the big city. It makes governance harder, there is no real unity, etc.
That also explains why the US spend so much money in Afghanistan. If it was a place like Korea, it would have needed only a few hundred billion dollars to develop. In Korea everyone lives in the same city ^^