Dune: The Darkest Possible Future | What's Worse Than the Jihad?

In this video we discuss the darkest possible future that could have occurred in the Dune saga. This was a future foreseen by Leto II and potentially Paul Atreides as well.

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[jeervin]

I always thought that Paul did not become the God Emperor because he was not born with the memories of his ancestors. He could not sacrifice his individual humanity, but his son who never really had that chance could choose it. The abomination was needed for the salvation of humanity.

[carolynallisee]

There was a fundamental difference between Paul and young Leto that ultimately determined how they would react to the requirement of becoming a worm-human hybrid. This was that Paul, unlike his son, hadn't been born to a mother super saturated with spice, and thus, pre awakened. Thanks to his presience (?) Paul was able to do some pretty unpleasant things, but he was still solidly human. Leto, on the other hand, had to fight from birth to retain his humanity... and his sense of self had already been weakened by the time he finally chose to take up the Golden Path.
What becomes clear in Children of Dune is that Leto and his sister Ghanima knew about the Golden Path long before the events in the book play out, they had discussed it, and both knew that one of them was going to have to adopt it. Ghanima was equally capable of taking up the challenge, but she didn't know if she had the mental and emotional strength to see it through to its end. Leto, on the other hand, having been supersaturated with spice not once, but twice, was already one personality amongst many when he adopted the sandtrout skin. With the weight of millions, if not billions, of human lives to support him through the thousands of years of slow metamorphosis, he believed he had enough humanity (or the memories of it) to see him to the conclusion of the Golden Path. And unlike his father, with his own individuality already subsumed in the collective Other Memory, he wasn't afraid of losing something already buried in the myriad.

[perceivedvelocity]

Leto was ruthless because he loved humanity. His only goal was to prevent our species extinction. He would do anything to achieve his goal. He would sacrifice anything to prevent a extinction event from happening.

Paul saw the same visions as Leto. Paul could not make the sacrifices necessary save humanity in the long run. Paul was his father's son and could not live with the things that he had to do. Leto was a mix of his mother and father. Chani was a person who could make hard choices and sacrifice herself. Leto was able to do what he did because he had the strength of both of his parents.

[chasmosaurus]

I always thought the darkest future would be a prescient despot. Imagine a Harkonnen as a Kwisach Hedarach. Mankind would turn forever inward serving the capricious whims of the despot. Civilizations wouldn't expand and grow since absolute control would be necessary. Change would be the enemy. Any threat would be completely and immediately eradicated.

[pbbbht]

I've met a shocking amount of Dune fans that have read through God Emperor of Dune and did not understand that the invisibility to prescience was the bulk what Leto's Golden Path was (the Scattering being the other part).

[anonperson]

Leto the second was a hero. He painted himself a villain, while actually creating a tyranny that actually caused minimum loss of life and suffering. There is a great example where he had to kill some historians, to add to his infamy he executed them by burning, but he had actually sedated them so they wouldn't feel anything. He even discusses at great length how he is priming the culture to admire exploration, while restricting that thing. It was a tyranny, but a carefully constructed one, not the brutality of a despotic ruler.

[c.w.simpsonproductions]

I think this also ties in with the question of why Leto II didn't wipe out the Ixians to avert this apocalyptic future. Because Leto II knew that it would ultimately fail. That type of fear and thinking is exactly what led to Shaddam IV trying to wipe out the Atreides, and it ultimately led to his defeat and precisely what he feared coming to pass. No matter how skilled his Fish-Speakers were, there's no way Leto would have been able to completely eradicate the Ixians. And those Ixian survivors would likely have created the very hunter seeker weapon Leto II feared out of pure desperation or vengeance.

[c.w.simpsonproductions]

One moment that resonated with me was a scene between the God-Emperor and Malky. We don't see their dialogue, but it's clear that Leto II told Malky about his visions of the Ixians creating the hunter seeker and asked him if the Ixians could not do it. And Malky simply sighed and chided Leto II, because no matter what, the Ixians couldnt stop. Because even with the warning of what they would create, they would simply assume that they could avoid such an outcome because of their confidence in themselves.

[martinlagrange]

Duncan was important to Leto's breeding program thanks to his death at the blades of the Sardaukar, at variance with Paul's vision "Duncan was with him in that vision" - through clearly Duncan had avoided the grip that a prescient would have on setting a waveform-collapse on the local universe.
Leto then back-bred Duncan with the Atreides to re-inforce this ability to disappear from prescient view and manipulation - resulting in biological mimesis that made humans invisible to prescience, in the form of Duncan's descendant, Siona Atreides.
By the time of Heretics of Dune, almost all of humanity in the old Empire had Siona genes, so that the saying 'By the thousand sons of Idaho' and 'The nine daughters of Siona' takes on more meaning - within the 10, 000 years after the fall of Leto II, the spread of these genes both within the Empire and the Scattering, allowed Bashar Miles Teg to reflect "Atreides, all of us...."
I'm always suprised that the Bene Gesserit never picked up on this - but, then, as in the appendix from Dune (the Report on Bene Gesserit motives as compiled for the Lady Jessica) this seemed to be the clumsiness they often demonstrated - being blindsided by events where their assumptions proved wrong - and failing to learn from those mistakes in turn.
Hence Leto II considered teaching them an even tougher lesson because "They are so close to what they should be, and yet so far..."

[RubyMarkLindMilly]

The Dune saga is so rich and complex it's a fascinating universe Herbert created

[karlhorvath]

Man the parallel of Paul not taking on the task to save Humanity and letting his kids deal with it, matches to real world leaders always deferring the hardest problems to another generations problem.

[NaatClark]

An interesting idea is that part of Leto's golden path was actually helping humanity to overcome their aversion TO technology. Not only did he not crack down on the IXians but he was enamored with their machines, going so far as to have a dictaphone that could literally read his thoughts. Him getting rid of most of the universe's natural spice forced people to use computer navigation in their ships. By Chapte House the Bene Gesserite are even making cyborgs out of people.

[luvr]

The hunter-seeker in the first book was not programmed, it was steered by a human controller.

[colinchildress]

Another Dune video? You know Quinn is addicted to this series when he's still making stuff about it in 2023. Love the videos, man. Keep up the good work!

[luismartinez]

There's a glimpse of another dark future at the end of Dune Messiah: "Again he stumbled. Chani, Chani he thought. There was no other way. Chani, beloved, believe me that this death was quicker for you . . . and kinder. They'd have held our children hostage, displayed you in a cage and slave pits, reviled you with the blame of my death. This way . . . this way we destroy them and save our children."

[Upgraayd]

I am always fascinated that Count Fenring had the trait that Leto II was looking for in his own breeding program, except he couldn't pass it on.

[Vinypod]

Man there´s no other youtuber like you explaning with such love and appreciation to Science Fiction books, the music, the audio, everything...This is the best channel to go deeper in this genre, keep bringing this amazing content! 👏👏

[djkehoe]

Glad to see you haven't forsaken the smaller videos. Still Quinn, with all these Dune videos, you should do some super cuts of all Dune videos besides just the playlist. All of the Explained in five minute episodes, all of the Ultimate guides together, etc etc for example

[cdanhowell]

I appreciate the accuracy that you present. So many times I hear people talking about the Choice that Paul had to make and completely get it wrong. Paul DID know what the Golden Path ultimately was (though he didn't ever use that term, obviously - he called it his Terrible Purpose) that Leto put into motion, but he was unwilling or unable to make that sacrifice - but Leto ultimately was willing.

Great work, my friend!

[yourcheapdate]

Nice one Quinn. I've been re-reading the original 6 books over the last year and I'm in Heretics now. I love how everyone is still trying to figure out what the hell the god emperor was actually trying to do. His ways were not understood during his long life and cannot be understood even through hundreds and thousands of years of study.

He was written so well as a detached all knowing being, but at the same time a living raw nerve! Such a great character. Wish we knew more about his sister's life though. Is there a book by Herbert's son or Anderson or the two of them about her that I missed?