Dune Philosophy: The Most Evil Emperor

Obviously this video will have spoilers! My favorite thing about the Dune series is how it points out the dramatic shifts that take place in the collected human unconscious over millennia. Like the evolution of how "The Worm" is viewed. In the first book the worm represents an unstoppable force of nature. The worm is Arrakis, Arrakis is the worm. It is the living and physical embodiment of the desert itself. In Freman culture the worm is God because he keeps the desert for his people. Shai Hulud guards the entrance into their "secret realm". The worm is exalted in Fremen society, enormous, deadly, rageful yet protective, and graceful. All of this changes after book 4, “God Emperor of Dune.
Paul Atreides' son, Leto II, took the image of the worm and twisted it.

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[awesomehpt]

Also didn’t Leto rule tyrannically because he foresaw that something was going to wipe out all of mankind? His restrictive rule gave mankind the urge to spread out across the universe ensuring that at least some of mankind would survive. With the added benefit that as time went on they would become invisible to prescience.

[Hacker]

This channel is entirely responsible for me getting more into the Dune series. Thanks so much for putting time into these videos.

[aloneinthedark]

Fremen: "The chosen one will turn Dune into an oasis planet!"

The Atreides Dynasty: *Does so*

Fremen: "No not like that."

[patreekotime]

The interesting thing about the perception of Leto II as the Most Evil Emporer is that his greatest weakness, which the Tleilaxu had figured out and exploited, was his capacity to Love. And not just the universal brotherhood of mankind kind of love, but to fall hopelessly and totally in the most fairy tale kind of giddy "true love". That the 3000 year old terrible brutal dictator of the known universe could fall from the school-boys spell. And the reason Leto II is capable of falling in love is that despite the terrors he inflicts upon humanity, despite the inhuman monster he has become, deep down he still thinks of himself as worthy of love.

[abstractedaway]

"Heroes are myths. There are no heroes in Dune, at least not in the indefinite sense. The Dune series understands that being a hero is not a trait that one possesses, but a fleeting, transitory experience that one embodies for a period of time... Buying into your own myth leaves you unable to evaluate your shortcomings and acknowledge your wrongs."

God Emperor of Dune is pivotal to the delivered philosophy of the whole series, and a video about it is a treat in itself.

But I love how deeply Quinn gets the message of Dune, and how well he reads Frank Herbert's ideas and relays them. This healthy iconoclasm towards messiahs is what keeps Dune relevant and insightful, more so than most fiction. Goodness knows, we need that.

[perceivedvelocity]

I started reading Frank Herbert's Dune books when I was 17. At that time I was very rebellious. I was drawn to the themes of tearing down the establishment and creating a different society in the Dune saga. Now I'm in my early 40's. I've got a good job and a family. When I read Frank's novels now I focus on how power corrupts. I wonder if I'll focus on another layer of the onion when I reread the original Dune books in another 20 years?

[muthias]

A pleasant surprise but honestly I cannot believe I never once thought that one day you would do audiobooks! Especially since it’s your voice that really carries the videos that you create so well!

[Sir_Persevere]

I think Mickey Mouse has become a form of god emperor himself. He started off as beloved, but now he's turned into a tyrant. And all fandoms shall flee the poison of Mickey Mouse and flock to content creators like you.

[Stormthorn]

The problem with justify the tyranny of Leto II with him being a psychic god is it kinda suggests that brutal tyranny under charismatic leaders is...good.

Like he has all the knowledge of the universe and could come the closest to true objective ethics and chooses tyranny. And that his actions get excused as for humanities good basd on his knowledge suggests tyranny and subjugation are themselves good.

"I know better than you and im hurting you for your own good" is classic cult leader type stuff.

[TheFirstCyberNinja]

Great video as always Quinn.
I just want to say that Shai Hulud although spelled like gibberish in Arabic "which I'll count it as creative liberty" but since it references Arabic words, it sounds closest to "Shah Kholoud" which translates to "King of Immortality" which imo makes the name a little bit more interesting with a hint of foreshadowing.

[joshmcneil]

Wonderful discussion here. I agree with your Dante reference as well. Frank and Brian were correct in that one can read Dune multiple times, ( particularly book one, but the whole series to be sure) and focus upon a different thread each time. The wealth of psychology and philosophy are especially deep and varied throughout.

[prestonspeaker]

my dad, a protestant minister, who started reading the books in the 70's, and is a big fan of Star Wars, and I have been talking about the books since I read them in middle school in the 90's. we often make parallels between Anakin and Leto II. However, not why I commented. When he has questions about Dune lore I link him your videos, if I don't have time to postulate myself, but we always follow up.
Wanted to thank you for the Dune content, and showing me other large scale stories to explore through your other content.
Thanks Quinn!!

[littlegiantrobo]

There are some interesting parallels between the rule of Leto 2nd and the rule of Japan's Tokugawa shogunate, which we also know as the Edo period. During this period, extremely specific, complex, and strictly enforced rules of social structure were established and, at times, brutally enforced. The irony here is that the rules were to enforce peace in the wake of centuries of civil war, and it lasted for a little over 260 years. There is still some debate over whether Tokugawa's system was evil or not (to what extent, I do not know).

[Xalashaska]

i’m buying the leather back soon, i wish they released the whole series again. they’re all gorgeous.

[AK-mszk]

👍🏼 comment added hope it helps defeat the evil algorithm 😈

[pacmanfantastic]

Something else to consider: Good and Evil are Western concepts; they do not exist in Eastern philosophical traditions (mainly the ones from India which spread out to East Asia like Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain influences). The West is based on linearity - one life, so you gotta perform it perfectly, thus the concepts Judgement and therefore Good vs. Evil become very important.

Whereas the East is based on many lives, hence, everything is cyclical and infinitely reproducing, so the emphasis becomes on moving from ignorance toward Wisdom. So, establishing Dharma is not necessarily "destroying evil", but about reifying a subtler mode of wisdom. While, Western Mysticism orients around refining oneself toward perfection.

Leto and the Bene Gessurit's long view and lifespan create a situation where they are as a result ostensibly acting based on a cosmic scope of wisdom, but their actions as judged by ordinary standards of "goodness" thus become "evil." In a way, Herbert presents the limits of solely prioritizing such linear based approaches through Leto's whole life as an example of becoming trapped within one's own reason without any option for transcendence.

[juliannacolombo]

Yes! Just what I needed. Super excited about the audio book and The Lie Behind the Star! Gonna get me on that list after I watch this. Thank you sir!

[MisterCross]

Another great video on Dune. All your videos on Dune are great. Must viewing coming from a man who has read Dune 10ish times. I look forward to your new graphic novel when it is finished. Have a great week!

[thelessons]

Who do y'all think is more tyrannical and despotic: the God Emperor Leto II from _Dune_ or the God Emperor of Mankind from _Warhammer: 40, 000?_

Edit:

Both are ancient (Leto II's consciousness is as old as mankind's DNA, the Emperor of Man a little older than Sumeria).

Both have access to extreme pyschic or prescient abilities

Both ran pogroms of tyranny and genocide amongst the stars (Leto II amongst humanity and it's holdings, the Emperor upon Terra, the galaxy with mankind and xenos alike)

Both saw the rise, fall, and liberation of mankind from AI and actively hate it (Leto II more from an ancestral perspective)

Both developed and revolutionized mankind's understanding of technology and the universe

Both left a permanent and lasting legacy upon humanity (one more positive than the other)

Both were atheistic, but had cults spring up in their name and against their wishes

Both were created from a spiritual or mystical-aligned group of people to save or guide humanity (from themselves or an external threat)

[neoatlas]

I wonder if Frank Herbert related the use/importance of spice to oil. The dunes he studied were inspired by middle eastern dunes, the Fremen are inspired by Middle Eastern/Muslim culture, etc. I know FH thought about the long term effects of things so items like Gold and Salt could also reinforce the importance of spice.