Are EVOLUTION and ORIGINAL SIN Compatible? | Trent Horn

A caller asks why, in light of evolution, God chose to give Adam and Eve immortal souls, and why did their one sin cause original sin to be passed down for ALL future generations? Trent Horn explains the Catholic Answer with Church teaching.

00:00 - Caller's Question
00:36 - Clarification
01:38 - Trent's Catholic Answer
04:29 - Subscribe

[Emcron]

I recall during RCIA that our priest had a very good explanation:

original sin isn’t actually something we did/didn’t do, but actually the encompassing vulnerability that we have to being corrupted by the world’s evil. thus the Holy Spirit comes to protect us at baptism.

[marcsmoo]

This was good but I think this topic needs a whole video discussion. Please do so!!!!

[henrim]

Always interesting to see how religion tries to adapt to scientific understanding. Kudos to the catholic church for trying to reconcile both. I grew up Baptist. Our leaders rejected evolution outright.

[ironymatt]

Part of the confusion can come from a misunderstanding of what the word sin really means. While original sin isn't an active sin we commit, as Trent mentioned, for a good number of people that's all they believe the word refers to - someone doing something wrong.

In reality, "sin" in English is a general term that describes *any* kind of flaw, and was an old English archery word for any arrow that missed the bullseye (missing the mark, whether by a mile or a hair). The Hebrew of the Old Testament has several different words corresponding to whichever specific sin is being described, depending on the situation.

[paxcoder]

You're not suggesting "rational abilities" are natural? Doesn't Aquinas teach that Ratio requires a soul? So Adam and Eve's hypothetical ancestors might have been intelligent as far as animals go, but not rational. The fact that Adam and Eve had a soul is what made them rational beings.

[canisrah]

What a mind-blowing response to the ethical objection to Original Sin. Wonderful.

[mi-ka-eltheguardian]

I still have few questions though: if evolution is to be reconciled with the account of Genesis, then what about death and chaos before sin ? I'm not a fundamentalist, however I don't fully buy the evolution's theory : while we do observe adaption and genetic rearrangements (micro evolution), we don't see change of kind of one species into another ( macro evolution): a fish that acquires new metabolic capabilities let's say, still stay a fish ; there is not transition involved . Over the centuries the theory of evolution has become more an ideology to keep God out of our lives .

[quinn-tessential]

Evolution is a modern and well-supported scientific theory. Original sin is a strange concept dreamt up by ancient humans thousands of years ago. Trying to imagine ways that they are compatible is an exercise in silliness. The God of Genesis is portrayed in a wildly inaccurate way. It presents a God who created Adam & Eve knowing exactly how they were and what they would do when presented with temptation, but then got angry and punished them for their "sin" anyway. The true God is not moody and manipulative. That's us! God is purity and unity. The universe we live in is duality, a dance of opposing forces. We are trapped within the duality and seek the unity. But we cannot find that unity by believing in a dualist God.

[daltonn]

……..Genesis says very clearly that death entered into the universe through Man’s sin. Meaning there was already a fully formed human being and not millions of years of death until what we call human came about.

[readthebiblewithme]

The punishment for sin is death. (Death; being biblically defined as eternal separation from God in hell and ultimately the Lake of Fire or the second death as opposed to the First Resurrection.
(SEE REV 20 in its entirety)

When Adam and Eve sinned, God judged their sin and interceded—making a sacrifice for them. An animal was put to death and it’s blood was shed.

For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. This was not a permanent solution to what mankind had lost.

It would later be formalized under the first covenant with Israel (The Law of Moses).
As this was all pointing to the permanent and eternal solution for mankind’s sin and restoration to God under the New Covenant to be fulfilled by Christ through His ONE sacrifice eternally perfected on the cross—[FOREVER]
(SEE Hebrews Chapters 9 & 10)

(The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world).

•Before the fall, God’s Spirit of life was connected to man’s soul within a sinless body.

•Before the fall, Adam and Eve’s bodies were in an immortal state of being and they enjoyed perfect harmony and fellowship with God. As it was Christ, Who walked in the cool of the garden with them in His preincarnate form.
(Before He took on human flesh to be our Savior)

Mankind was created as a three fold being of:
Spirit,
Soul,
Body.

*After the fall, man’s connection to God’s Spirit was lost.

Man’s three fold nature now became two fold with a:

Dead spirit, (removed from the equation)
Carnal Soul, (sin nature)
housed in his flesh body
(with its bodily appetites contrary to God’s Will).

This is WHY we MUST be born again as Christ testifies in John 3. Or born from above as new creations. We must be reconnected to God’s life giving Spirit in Christ.

Only a saved person is sealed with the Holy Spirit. If this is not the case, then one is not saved and no amount of religiosity or pious self-righteous acts can change this fact. We are saved and in the body of Christ because Christ’s Resurrection Spirit of life lives inside us…

It is the Spirit that gives life.
The flesh profits nothing.

Adam and Eve, as the progenitors of the human race, (according to God’s command—Be fruitful and multiply) could no longer pass on their former Spirit nature to their offspring.

Thus, we are all born into this world spiritually separated from God. And unless this condition is overcome by faith in Christ, we perish as such.

There is a topic though that ought be addressed concerning infants or young children involved in premature death. Meaning, before they understand they are sinners.

Under such conditions, they are saved by the blood of the Lamb—period. Why? Because Christ’s perfect sacrifice atones for the sins of ignorance also.

As it is written,
“Then little children (literally infants/sucklings) were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them.

But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:13-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said,

“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, (meaning have an innocence of faith in God) you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

There is no mention of infant baptism by Christ nor did Jesus baptize anyone…

In the great commission keys of the Kingdom, does Christ command—Go yea therefore and baptize every infant???
Or Preach the traditions?

“And Jesus came and spoke to THEM, saying,

“All authority <KEYS>
has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Go therefore and MAKE DISCIPLES of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

(BUT NOTICE THE WARNING which can certainly include pedaphile priests systemically rampant in the Roman Catholic religious Institution cover-up)

“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:1-6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

(For until the law sin was in the world,

***but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had NOT sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

But the free gift is not like the offense.

For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation,

but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.

For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to ALL men, resulting in condemnation,

even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life.

For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound.

But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12-21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

We are not sinners simply because we sin, we sin because of our fallen sin nature inherited from Adam and Eve.

Technically, to categorize sins as Venial or Mortal is not Biblical. All sin leads to death.

“For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God,

through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

whom God set forth as a propitiation (Christ ALONE appeased God’s Wrath against us to satisfy His justice to judge all sin unto death—Christ died in our place but He also lived in our place)…

Thus, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the proof of God’s promise to us IN Christ.

by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness,

because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness,

that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded.

By what law? Of works?

No, but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (declared legally and positionally not guilty of sin) by faith [IN CHRIST] apart from the deeds of the law.

Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, ”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

As for the THEORY of “Devilution”, man is without excuse to not know by general revelation that God created everything according to His eternal power, plan, and purpose by design; AKa prior intelligence.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,

who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead,

so that they are without excuse,

because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:18-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

who exchanged the truth of God for the lie,

and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Final related Question?
Is the Mary of the Bible a god Queen or a created human being (creature) saved by her Son as her Savior? As only sinners need to be saved from their sin…

“And Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:46-47‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[tgflux]

Your answer at 3:43 isn't bad . . . except that it still depends on two individuals, "Adam and Eve", and God making a supernatural act (I might accept the Big Bang as such, but otherwise, Hmm) to implant "immortal souls."

A better response is simply to accept that the *myth* of Adam & Eve explains that point of evolution when hominids evolved to understand Right&Wrong (selfless and selfish)---the point when we might say they "reflect the Image of God" as human beings (Homo sapiens)---yet consciously chose selfishness (behold, Sin!).

I understand that Piux XII declared that Roman Catholics have to believe in a literal Adam&Eve. Thankfully, I'm not Roman, and am still free to Reason to the FULL extent of my God-given faculties!

[junesilvermanb]

Evolution is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

These characteristics are the expressions of genes that are passed on from parent to offspring during reproduction.

Different characteristics tend to exist within any given population as a result of mutation, genetic recombination and other sources of genetic variation.

Evolution occurs when evolutionary processes such as natural selection (including sexual selection) and genetic drift act on this variation, resulting in certain characteristics becoming more common or rare within a population.

The evolutionary pressures that determine whether a characteristic would be common or rare within a population constantly change, resulting in a change in heritable characteristics arising over successive generations.

It is this process of evolution that has given rise to biodiversity at every level of biological organisation, including the levels of species, individual organisms and molecules.

The theory of evolution by natural selection was conceived independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace in the mid-19th century and was set out in detail in Darwin's book On the Origin of Species.

Evolution by natural selection was first demonstrated by the observation that more offspring are often produced than can possibly survive.

This is followed by three observable facts about living organisms: (1) traits vary among individuals with respect to their morphology, physiology and behaviour (phenotypic variation), (2) different traits confer different rates of survival and reproduction (differential fitness) and (3) traits can be passed from generation to generation (heritability of fitness).

Thus, in successive generations members of a population are more likely to be replaced by the progenies of parents with favourable characteristics that have enabled them to survive and reproduce in their respective environments.

In the early 20th century, other competing ideas of evolution such as mutationism and orthogenesis were refuted as the modern synthesis reconciled Darwinian evolution with classical genetics, which established adaptive evolution as being caused by natural selection acting on Mendelian genetic variation.

All life on Earth shares a last universal common ancestor (LUCA) that lived approximately 3.5–3.8 billion years ago.

The fossil record includes a progression from early biogenic graphite, to microbial mat fossils, to fossilised multicellular organisms.

Existing patterns of biodiversity have been shaped by repeated formations of new species (speciation), changes within species (anagenesis) and loss of species (extinction) throughout the evolutionary history of life on Earth.

Morphological and biochemical traits are more similar among species that share a more recent common ancestor, and can be used to reconstruct phylogenetic trees.

Evolutionary biologists have continued to study various aspects of evolution by forming and testing hypotheses as well as constructing theories based on evidence from the field or laboratory and on data generated by the methods of mathematical and theoretical biology.

Their discoveries have influenced not just the development of biology but numerous other scientific and industrial fields, including agriculture, medicine, and computer science.

[scottanderson]

The theory of evolution is incompatible (and really in direct conflict) with the dogmas of the church:

43. All that exists outside God was, in its whole substance, produced out of nothing by God.
47. God created the world free from exterior compulsion and inner necessity.
48. God has created a good world.
49. The world had a beginning in time.
50. God alone created the World.
51. God keeps all created things in existence.
52. God through His providence protects and guides all that He has created.
53. The first man was created by God.
54. Man consists of two essential parts--a material body and a spiritual soul.
55. The rational soul is per se the essential form of the body.

Also, the theory of evolution is contradictory to Sacred Scripture:

Genesis 1:

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

Combined, the church's dogma and scripture make it difficult to ambiguate either one to allow for the theory of evolution.

[matthewmurdock]

"Their children suffer but they are not punished."

How anyone could claim this isn't just being sleezy with semantics is beyond me. They still SUFFER because of them. They still get negative consequences because of the actions of two people who were not them.

Was the all powerful Abrahamic god somehow unable to allow the blameless to be born with the gifts Adam and Eve gave up? Why in fact even allow Adam or Eve to be able to give birth to people in such a state to where the vast majority of them will end up tormented forever? It is utterly illogical especially for an omniscient being.

[eggsbacon]

Science says genetically we all came from 2 people.

[c.s.froggis]

Try a little science experiment with your kids. Give them a canister of legos and have them shake it for an hour straight. Then let them dump them out and leave them there without touching them for 24 hours. Then give your kids thirty minutes to build whatever they want with them. After all this, check with them and ask which activity was the most productive. Science -- that is testing and observing -- will tell you (and so will your kids) that having a creator actively and thoughtfully involved in the process of creation yields actual, meaningful results.

[dannyb]

the correct answer is that molecules to man "evolution" didn't happen.

[barbaragriffin]

Wow you guys are good story tellers, please people stuck with your Bible and your Bible ALONE

[c.s.froggis]

Jesus Christ is not an evolved monkey. Man was made from the dust of the earth in the image of God, and God is not an ape. God then breathed His Spirit into the newly formed man, and then from Adam's rib He created woman, Eva. Your defense of evolution is contrary to sacred scripture, holy tradition, and the dogmas of the church. And it is blasphemous.

Furthermore, there is a reason evolution will never make it beyond the level of theory and into the realm of actual science: It is not observable. The scientific method matters. There should be millions of observable living missing links running around today, but there are precisely none we can observe. We have an ape, which in point of fact is really nothing like man except for in the popular imagination -- this supposedly our predecessor. Then we have man. So we have the starting point still present and perfectly adapted to this environment and we also have the end point, man, also perfectly at home, neither looking odd or unevolved for what they are. Yet we have no ape men, no matter how many fantasy films are made to cement the idea in our psyche. There are no extent missing links. But if evolution is an ongoing process, there should be all sorts of intermediary species all around, including those with no symmetrical pairs of eyes and ears and nostrils and hands and feet or gills or fins or wings. There are none. Furthermore, there is scarce archeological evidence that isn't cobbled together on erroneous presuppositions. Furthermore, death and thing and decay are all around as the natural state when things are left alone, not spontaneous self-composition. Likewise, we know that homosexuality, sex changes, contraception and abortion do not lead to further propagation, so on the moral front we are bereft of evolution as well unless guided by the redemptive grace of God. We in fact observe all around the exact opposite of evolution.

Little boys and girls who grow up with dinosaur and astronaut cartoons should at some point realize they are only cartoons. What all human civilizations have recorded are not dinosaur and astronaut cartoons but the history of creation, the fall, the flood, and the center of all history, Jesus Christ, who physically ascended into the sky whereby He entered (not outer space but) Heaven. This new and unproven theory of evolution, nor even two centuries old, can't compete with all human recorded history and observation pointing to creation. And the two don't mix. Ad much as you try, they are opposed to each other. You are really fighting a losing battle to have any official support whatsoever for evolution from the catholic church.

[trnslash]

Trent, do yourself a favor, get yourself a copy of Logos Rising by E Michael Jones, Evolution is completely incoherent scientifically and philosophically