Villain Therapy: JOKER

Arthur Fleck's swings between manic episodes and serious depression can teach us a bit about what bipolar disorder looks like in real life.

Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright take a look at the circumstances that lead Arthur Fleck to become the Joker. When you look at the ways his actions and emotions relate to bipolar disorder, and pair that with some pretty major trauma in his childhood and other circumstances in his life, we've got a really interesting character to look at from a psychological standpoint. And absolutely brilliant filmmaking that bring it to life.

NOTE: As we state in the episode, there is NOT a correlation between mental illness and villainy or violence. Arthur Fleck happens to display some of the traits of bipolar disorder and pseudobulbar effect, but it is his choices, combined with his life experiences/circumstances and the mythology of the DC universe that led him to become a villain (the Joker). We also discuss the ways that the film portrays mental illness and the messages that sends.

And of course Alan has hot takes about just how brilliant Joaquin Phoenix's performance is, just how surprising Todd Phillips' direction is, and what kind of lenses they used to make Gotham look like a complete turdpile. It's enlightening?

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Cinema Therapy is:
Written by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Alan Seawright, Megan Seawright, and Jonathan Decker
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis

[CinemaTherapyShow]

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[Klaital]

The stairs in the movie are clear metaphor to his sanity. Early on in the movie you see him slowly and with difficulties climbing up the stairs to sanity, and then later on happily dancing down the stairs to madness. Showing how it's so much easier to just let go.

[savannahzoellin]

This movie makes me think of the saying “ it takes a village to raise a child” but the other half of it that people don’t remember is “The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth”

[sarahsmith]

Alan, I love how you said “it didn’t glorify it, it exposed it.” This is the essence of the film.

[earlgrey]

The joker really nailed how it feels to live with mental illness.. there is this sentence in his notebook:"The worst thing about living with a mental illness is that others expect you to act like you don't"

THAT hits sooo hard..

[phantomthedragoness]

Joker is the film embodiment of the quote "art is to comfort the disturbed, and disturb the comfortable."

[luisaschroder]

As a musician I love the fact that the score was made before the filming, and the film was built on the music.

[mindfulsexualityflorida]

I am a social worker who has worked in community mental health as a case manager as well as a therapist, both inpatient and outpatient, for low income communities relying predominantly on Medicaid and sliding fee scale services. The scene where the social worker says, "They don't give a (expletive) about people like you, Arthur" hit so hard because I have crossed paths with so many populations that are fighting to scrape by and all they want is the medication that barely helps them feel stable. I ended up getting a tattoo of Phoenix's Joker on my forearm and it opens so many conversations about this feeling of abandonment and discrimination. Now I also just love the Joker in general so the fact that they used Arthur Fleck to have this conversation about mental health was genius and I may be one of the few who thinks it doesn't take away from the overall Joker character at all. We can be fairly certain at the end of this movie that this story is one of MANY of Joker's origin stories, by his own admission. Then again, I think social workers have a dark sense of humor that helps them appreciate movies like this. Or maybe its just me.

[Bored_Barbarian]

“The worst part of having a mental illness is that people expect you to behave as if you don't”

As someone who has adhd and autism, very few quotes have hit home more than that.

[GotionHardestLevelGaming]

I love the analogy you have about that desperate need for a male connection. That explains his obsession with Batman so well. It really shines on how well this movie was done

[hannahbananabobana]

“A person not embraced by their tribe will burn it down to feel its warmth.”
This quote came into my mind when Mr. Decker talked about Arthur not having a tribe.

[sofie]

I love how you are clearly showing the difference between mental illness and violence, it’s something that needs to be destigmatized!

[bartholomewthundercatiii]

One of my favorite visual metaphors is how he slowly struggles to climb _up_ the stairs every day, but going down is effortless, just as how much easier it was for him to give in to his violent urges instead of trying to be better.

[felixhenson]

I have not seen Joker but I did just noticed that one guy who's nice to him is a character played by an actor with dwarfism who isn't the butt of a joke and isn't a fantasy creature, is just a regular character. Can we just appreciate how rare that is? (I haven't seen the film, granted, so i can't say if his height does go on to be the butt of a joke)

[imstillwing]

"Why should I apologize for the monster I've become? No one ever apologized for making me this way." - Joker

[hiddenechoes]

When I rewatched this film with my boyfriend, during the scene where the mom is questioned about Arthur's abuse my boyfriend turned to me wide eyed and said, "Why are they blaming her? She is super banged up, clearly she has been beaten badly and likely has been disociating. They're blaming her for allowing him and herself to be beaten up and harmed and they aren't treating her at all like a victim in a rough place." I was shocked because I typically don't have enough compassion for people responsible for children who don't protect them, but listening to him for awhile changed how I viewed parts of the film and how I perceive older siblings and parents in abusive households.

Edit:
Clarifying note as some mentioned that the film blames her because Arthur blames her, when my bf questioned why "they're" blaming her he referred to the people questioning her when she's battered. And the newspaper clipping about her allowing it.

[amandamoore]

The fact that Joaquin himself has experienced so much trauma and hurt in his life helps you know WHY his performance is so perfect

[peachdoesart]

Arthur needing a male figure who never relents and is unconditionally there reminds me of his dynamic with Batman

[TooRudeProductions]

Always love that Murray makes fun of Arthur for having a book of jokes when he himself probably has a team of writers and a guy jotting things down on cue cards

[violathepoodle-roo]

The fact they are so gentle with mental illness really does make me feel so welcomed. If that's the right way to put it. But this is cinema therapy it is already very welcoming but as someone who deals with adhd it really makes me feel ok about having it rather than being something wrong or dangerous.