Chilling Challenge Day 16: Sally - A Feminist Analysis

Chilling Challenge - Day 16: Sally

As promised in yesterday's video, today's topic is Sally from The Nightmare Before Christmas, and I will be taking a feminist look at the character. Ultimately, Sally is rather half-and-half. There's stuff about her that's very feminist and there are things that are not so feminist.

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[BVBloom]

I think you're leaving out a key detail in Sally's development; throughout the movie, she doesn't think she'll end up with Jack. She does not believe that he will ever see her that way, and therefore she puts her romantic feelings on a backburner, and focuses on her own quest for freedom, and being as good a friend to Jack as she can be. She does not resent him for being unaware of her feelings. She does not obsessively seek out his attention. Neither does she let unrequited love embitter or diminish her; when she feels that Jack's plans will end in disaster she tries to warn him, and when the shit hits the fan, she decides to clean up the mess as best she can, rather than wallow in self-pity and grief. And when Jack finally discovers Sally's feelings at the end, and returns them, it's a mutually welcome discovery; a joyful shift from platonic friendship to romantic attachment. And it was beautiful.

[BrothersGrim]

Sally always struck me as very independent but young. She seemed to be like a very smart teenager. Using her wits, but also getting caught up in love and romance.

[Karalora]

Great observations! What often gets lost in these conversations is that a character or a movie or the habits of a writer can both support AND undermine feminism in different ways. Sally is a perfect example.

[Jenable]

I always assumed that she wanted to escape just because she wanted to be free. And Jack was just someone she liked and wanted to be with, but that was more of a separate thing from my perspective.

[tvsonicserbia]

To be fair Sally is more important than all characters except Jack and Oogie, so it doesn't feel that male dominated.

[emilyjohnson]

It's also to be considered that Sally is on her own journey in the film and we are likely not seeing it in it's entirety. Sally can be likened to a teenager, running away from a restrictive parental figure into the arms of someone who seems much more cool and understanding to her. Chances are, if the film continued, we'd see Sally grow into a strong independent member of the society she exists in. Sally struggles to fit into the feminist characters box, because that's what it seems to be in film, an equally restricting box, because her character is still in flux at the end of the film. Or at least, that's my take on things.

[theveganvillainess]

Jack was Sally's love interest, he didn't really notice her until the end of the movie.

[bbbrly]

Your shirt looks like an Arizona tea can.

[SanbaiSan]

And it's lame that we needed a male character (Santa Claus) to give Sally the recognition she deserves ("The next time you feel the need to take over someone else's job, I'd listen to HER!") But I was always thrilled as a kid that he did so - and that Jack felt like a fool for ignoring Sally. And I loved that his song at the end began with "My dearest friend, if you don't mind..." - he doesn't assume that he deserves anything from her. OTP for realz. And dude, jumping out of a window, breaking three limbs off, then threading a needled WITH ONE HAND, then sewing herself back together is SO FREAKIN' BAWS.

Sally, I love you.

[pingvinererkule]

I personally LOVE Sally (her song is also one of my favorites in the movie). I love how she keeps poisoning Dr. Frankenstein and I love how she jumps out of the window, falls completely apart and then just start sewing herself back together all nonchalant.

I see how her being aggressive when she's alone, and kind and quiet when she's around people, the whole suffering quietly part, is problematic from a feminist point of view. How having a lot of female characters like that in movies can be harmful. How she is very much a love interst for Jack.

But from a more selfish(?) point of view I love everything about her. Because I am so very much like her. I'm usually quiet, kind and polite when I'm around people, and let out all my feelings when I'm alone. So much so that the one time I dared to stand up for my friend when she was called a feminazi, my ex-"friends" said that I was following my "man-hating" friend around like a lost puppy (because, you know, someone like me could not POSSIBLY have any opinions of her own, especially not in favor of feminism). That's why I often connect with the characters (female or not) that are generally seen as kinda passive (Cinderella is another example there).

So on one hand I love all things about Sally, because I feel like I'm looking into a mirror. On the other hand, some of the things I do relate to in her are things about myself that are not necessairily good for me, like keeping my feelings and opinions bottled up in order to always please others. The ideal thing would be to encourage girls to speak their mind, to not keep everything bottled up. Either way, there is no denying that alot of Sally's struggles are very REAL.

[iamclassicforlife]

This is totally random, but I'd love to hear you guys' thoughts on 'Saving Mr. Banks.' Specifically the 'reality vs. film' angle. And the 'Travers vs. Disney.'
Can I request that video, pretty please?

[reevesavage]

I was under the impression that Shock was a boy that just dressed as a witch because he wanted to and I was fine with it...and Jack was fine with it...and that was beautiful

[Frogvermore]

So it’s fine when a man only exists as a live interest but it’s not when a woman is?

[VideoHussain]

Ok so I tried with every to love this movie (I saw it for the first time in the Christmas of 2013) but ultimately, it was so unbelievably flat imo.
Sally, however, (and y'know, those gorgeous visuals!) was the redeeming feature of this movie to me. She was the one kind character in Halloween Town and optimistic without being a damsel in distress. I love this video for criticising her character without being biased.

[isakehl]

I'm living for this complex analysis of Sally, and I love your understanding that "Sally's" story arc focusing mainly on her love interest isn't her fault. It brings me to the MPDG trope, which is ridiculously sexist, yes, but critics have turned against the MPDGs themselves, and not the main character who essencially objectifies and uses the MPDG as a diary or something, or even the author, who wrote a shallow character who does nothing but further the main one's story. Thank you for seeing Sally as an innocent victim of flawed storytelling <3 (and yes, I realize I'm terribly late, since this video was posted years ago but alas, I've only found your channel this week)

[kasdfg]

Ever notice how good looking women hardly ever give a shit about this kind of stuff?

[oogleoo]

I always saw Sally’s motives as being both driven by love and a need to get away, but her love was more underlying until later on

[CheshireAndAliceee]

source for studies show the male female ratio takes a "toll"...?

[acephalousavidity]

This is a very late comment but this is a great video! The Nightmare Before Christmas was always one of my favourite movie but for the last couple of years these thoughts discussed in the video have been bothering me. Well explained, as per usual from you guys on this channel. :))

[AutisticTea]

Sally is definitely a BAMF. This is still my all time favourite movie. I used to carry things in my socks as a kid (with a particular fixation on black and white socks) because of Sally. My favourite song is This Is Halloween.