GM Skeptic is Wrong About Religious Experience

Before becoming an atheist, Genetically Modified Skeptic believed he had religious experiences. But later, he reasoned that whatever he felt, it was all in his head. According to Drew, arguments from religious experience are about as compelling as the evidence for the healing power of essential oils.

Drew provides two main reasons why he rejects the argument from religious experience that I respond to, including the "neurotheology" objection and the conflicting claims objection. I also provide a couple of cases of evidentially compelling religious experiences.

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[philosophyporch]

Exactly - it is simply poor philosophy to argue that certain disciplines within the hard sciences are able to reproduce, at least to some extent, the feelings that accompany "religious experience" by activating certain areas of the brain (the location escapes me). Of course, this is not problematic in and of itself - until bad philosophy creeps into the equation - which it so often does within these types of 'studies'.

We are all familiar with the philosophical misstep that takes place - the claim goes along the lines that "because we can reproduce the feelings of religious experience, it surely follows that it must be the case that any religious experience is not objectively true i.e. there is no God that one is actually experiencing - it is merely the data, as is perceived, by the subject."


But why do so many not see such a fallacious lapse in logic? It clearly doesn't follow that because Dr. Ted can reproduce some thing X, that X does not exist...


For instance, we know full well that Dr. Ted can, and has, stimulated certain regions of the brain, and upon stimulation, the patient has sworn that they smelled an orange - but there was no orange present. But does it now follow that such an experiment proves that there are no oranges at all? The same is done in relation to experiences with other individuals - the proper region of the brain is stimulated, and the patient swore that he saw his grandmother in the room. But does it now follow that simply because he was stimulated to see a grandmother not there, that he has no grandmother at all? Of course not... this would be seen as obviously absurd.


But it is no less absurd to say that "if we can stimulate certain regions of the brain to reproduce an experience of God, then there must be no God." This just does not follow.


Be wary of "conclusions simply drawn from the data..." More often than not, there are philosophical assumptions (bad ones) that are smuggled in...

[DanielApologetics]

I had migraines for 13 years...Once a month, consistently, I would have an attack that would knock me out for a full day. One day it was so bad it lasted for 3 days, I was alone in cold dark room for 3 days, getting desperate, I prayed for strength to ride the storm and for it to stop. Since that day, I have NEVER had a single migraine attack again. That was 9 years ago! Praise God for this undeserved grace and healing gift. May He help me use the freedom of that gift to glorify Him and serve well.

[toomanymarys]

I had a similar experience. My child disappeared. Long story short, she took off and got lost and wouldn't have survived the night. I didn't know whether she was kidnapped--in fact, I thought she was likely kidnapped, honestly, because she had disappeared so completely--or in the a neighbor's house or in the woods, but while I was praying, I heard that voice telling me she was in the woods. Nothing silent should be that loud. I told the police who had come to search for her that she was there because I was instantly convinced of it, and she ended up being not only in the area I thought she was but in the exact direction I was compelled to face when I heard the voice.

I don't know why some people get answers and others don't. I just know that I did.

[shilohplatt]

How does this channel not get more support?
It got everything

-Qualitative audio & visuals
-Good reasoning
-Respectful approach
-Regular video uploads
-Love for truth


Keep up the good work buddy, really appreciate this. If you go on like this you will get a good audience :)

[jeffmurphy]

Very well said. Personal experiences are why I’m no longer an atheist. I’m not a follower of any religion but I cannot deny the supernatural.

[manne]

"Maybe God isn't so hidden after all"

Well said, and thanks for another awesome video. Great testimony of yours as well!

I remember when I first became a Christian, my car stalled at a red light and Then the light turned Green so I looked in my rear view mirror to see if the car behind me was going to honk and what I saw was two guys coming out of the bushes and they pushed my car into an empty parking lot. So I got out of my car to thank them and they were gone.
It blew me away, I have no explanation for it other than maybe they were angels.

[gavart]

I’d like to share my experience because I need to get it off my chest. First, a little context: I’m a recently converted Christian through apologetics and an emotional connection to the idea of a God (my entire life a small minority of my heart has seemingly yearned to be religious for some reason). Recently, about a month ago, I prayed for God to show me the face of Jesus Christ because I heard about the shroud of Turin and was curious. Two days later I was taking a shower and God gave me a vision of Jesus Christ- we were in the clouds, I was in a plateau that was about 10 steps below Jesus and I was looking up at him. He had beams of light protruding from his face so that I could not see it and he had his arms extended at his side but facing towards me. I looked down and saw a rug that was a royal blue with a repeated design of kites (just the shape) interlocking (one filled and one not; colored like an unrefined gold) and like this nice “embroidery” that the designs were within. When I looked at them I was reminded of when Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. I did not see my limbs and all throughout the vision I was absolutely terrified before Jesus Christ, I wanted to hide and my soul screamed it so deeply that when I came out of the vision I began to cry. I don’t know what it means but at that point I had not accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior so it could have to do with that.

[SomeChristianGuy.]

I recently posted my own conversion story to my channel which includes religious experience. I used to be an atheist, but, there is no way I could continue to ignore and handwave what I had experienced. These atheists simply have no idea what's out there.

[VicCrisson]

Great work, keep it up, guys let's comment and contribute to the algorithm.

[zephyr-sdropzone]

I'll never forget December 31, 2019. That night I had a terrible, terrible feeling that something bad was about to happen. I never had that before or since. And we all knew what happened in 2020.

[spriles]

Erik, thank you so much for this video and sharing your experience. It must have been difficult getting ratioed on twitter the other day for discussing these matters. Thank you for enduring the vitriol. There are many people, myself included, who are greatly helped by your work. Both on Youtube and Twitter!

[patrlcksreaLView]

"Just because you can explain how it happens doesn't mean you can explain why it happens..." Thomas Varghese

[ernest]

I appreciate your respectful approach, but I disagree with both your conclusions and the way in which your refuted GMS's points.

His first point is essentially claiming that evidence proposed for God isn't as compelling in light of proposed alternatives. When you say that these alternative explanations don't disprove God, you're not really countering his point, as he doesn't claim that it is evidence that disproves God. His point is that, like with essential oils, we find anecdotal evidence a lot more compelling than it has reason to be, and should be more skeptical of it. Not a claim that God isn't real, but rather a reason to question claims that assert that He is.

His second point is similar. If other people make claims that are similar to and irreconcilable with yours, that's a compelling reason to question your claim. If a person can find ways to reconcile the claims, like you propose, then that person's skepticism isn't as warranted... but unless you remove all but the most basic elements of each religion, then GMS's point still remains true, and provides good reason to question the veracity of most religions.

As for your anecdotal examples, those are cool experiences. I don't know if I, with my limited understanding, could fully explain them, but it is quite a leap to go from "I once intuited a thing or had a coincidental experience" (or even a full on premonition, I'll even grant you that) and "God is real, he loves me, and my religion is correct and good."

[serbeo]

If friendly atheist saw you, his anger would be beyond what you could possibly imagine

[jacksonrelaxin]

I have a similar experience with the torment of hell being planted in my mind from a young age, so I can relate to GMS that way. However, he went full science worship and apparently is gonna idolize some dood Carl Sagan and even put up his image in the background. I used to like Sagan when I was young and naive, but as I got older it’s clear the guy was not genuine and also has very childish arguments against religions. And now “science” is basically becoming everything that atheists used to accuse Christianity of being: forced upon children’s minds, making grand claims that no average person can prove, and even costing plebs billions of dollars while stuffing the pockets of politicians and corporations. Almost like it’s a human problem.

[hermannaxelschatte]

Your experience of a loud audible “voice” has happened in my family. It’s very eerie and yet quite compelling why it happens. And it was to avoid dire consequences for relatives in very hazardous situations. It’s was quite miraculous.

[jonhilderbrand]

Lol! I experienced _plenty_ of highly emotional religious "events" before I was finally saved, and none of them were sufficient to do the work God needed to do in my life. The single most impactful experience took place in my car, alone, with no music, only a pastor on YouTube who read a Bible passage: Romans 1:18-26, and no, it wasn't fear of the wrath of God, it was specifically verses 21 and 22.
Bless you and your work, my friend!

[Derek_Baumgartner]

Great stuff!

I'm reminded as well of another line of evidence: that if we are indeed spiritual beings, then it is reasonable to assume part of our bodies are designed for 'spiritual activity' - that these experiences can be stirred up or even faked by isolating parts of our brains related to such activity doesn't mean that the experiences are fully natural. Far from it!

That'd be like saying "Well, this car is swerving back and forth on the road. Therefore, the car's driver is bad" and not thinking any further, when other causes could include damaged car parts (damaged brakes, over/underinflated/popped tires, etc.).

Multiple things can result in a similar-looking outcome - physical phenomena can be responsible for a lot of these! - but finding one possible (and even confirmed in some cases) explanation doesn't mean you've found the *only* possible explanation. Else we'd not need prosecutors and defense attorneys: whoever answers first would win!

One may say at this point "Well, that's ad hoc. We found an answer, so you're taking refuge in saying 'Well, that may not be the only answer'!" - but no. The abundance of reasonable miraculous claims (such as those Testify has listed in the description, not to mention reliable NDEs compiled by the likes of Dr. Gary Habermas) indicates *at the least* that there's very much likely something else going on here.
If one explanation can cover some but not all of the cases, there's something else at play. That's just common sense.
And that counterfeits have been found doesn't mean real money doesn't exist, either. :P

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Keep up the good work!

[pinochet]

'Religious experience' from non-Christians has been one of the hardest things for me to grapple with. It never caused me to lose faith, but if I was asked about it, I would be left completely without a good answer. The best I could've cobbled together would be completely ineffectual and would've been an equally strong case against my position i.e. not an argument for my position.