Explaining Astrology to a Skeptic

An interview between astrologer Chris Brennan and science journalist Abi Millar, where Abi asks some questions about astrology from the perspective of someone who is skeptical but open-minded about the subject.

Abi is in the process of writing a book titled The Spirituality Gap, which will explore a range of spiritual practices and examine how people make sense of life in the modern world, and how this can be understood within the context of a scientific mindset.

As a science reporter, Abi was approaching the subject of astrology from more of a skeptical perspective, but said that she hoped to maintain a balance between skepticism and open-mindedness.

She asked to interview me for a chapter in the book that is going to be on astrology, and I agreed under the condition that I could record and release the discussion as an episode of the podcast.

I thought this would be a good opportunity to record an episode talking with someone who is skeptical but curious about astrology, and demonstrate how I would personally answer some of the questions about astrology that naturally come up in that context.

In some ways it is a continuation of a similar approach that I took in episode 288, which was titled Explaining Astrology to Non-Astrologers, and if you enjoy this episode then I’d recommend checking that one out as well:

This is episode 383 of The Astrology Podcast:

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Intro
00:01:46 Abbi Millar's book
00:02:36 How Chris discovered astrology
00:05:10 Cosmology that underlies astrology
00:07:18 Is astrology a science?
00:09:10 Astronomy and astrology
00:12:00 Why astrology fell out of favor
00:19:33 Causal mechanism of astrology
00:22:11 Does Chris believe astrology works?
00:24:04 Confirmation bias
00:30:37 Astrological studies
00:35:19 The focus of Chris' work
00:36:22 Is astrology predictive?
00:46:18 Predictions for the next few years
00:52:23 Fate and free will
00:56:02 Value of studying historical basis of astrology
01:03:00 How astronomical discoveries have impacted astrology
01:05:08 The 13th zodiac sign
01:10:45 Rise in popularity of astrology
01:19:52 Decline in skepticism
01:27:30 Is astrology a spiritual practice
01:30:26 Biggest misconceptions about astrology
01:36:48 Richard Tarnas
01:38:11 Difficulties in going public with one's interest in astrology
01:43:43 Patrons and sponsors

[elendil]

She picked the right, best, person to talk to. Excellent job, Chris! Thank you.

[PriscillaLivesHere]

I admire you so much, Chris. Your contribution to the world hasn’t even been understood yet. Tip of the iceberg. We are so lucky to have you in this community.

[marenomorgan]

One thing I would add to her question around astrologers maybe obfuscating their lack of understanding about WHY astrology works... Chris uses the example of machines, like microwaves or cars, saying that we don't necessarily need to know the mechanics of those machines to know that they work. But one could counter, SOMEONE knows how those things work. The example that I would use, actually, is nature. Because nature works in spite of our baffling lack of understanding of its mechanics. We think we know, but we are unable thus far as a species to understand the specific workings of nature without a profound level of reductionism and leaving things out. Our understanding of science, as Chris says, is subject to change, and that's really in large part because of our inherent ignorance of how the world works. So as with nature, astrology operates in this sort of realm of mystery. When it works, I think it's best for us to be humble toward that and almost recognize that the science we have at present is inadequate to understand it. As of now, it is only able to reduce down elements into their constituent parts, when that's not how nature nor astrology work. Both only operate in relationship to all other parts and facets and must be understood in a transcontextual sense. This is hard for scientifically minded people programmed into the doctrine of reductionism to understand: that reducing something down does not inherently enhance your understanding of something. It may indeed obfuscate and lead to far LESS understanding. There is a level of faith, perhaps, but more than that: there is a humility in approaching astrology and nature that is necessary, in my opinion.

[DouglasSadownick]

Chris I’ve been drawn to your marvelous combination of intellect and wisdom. I’m a psychologist and analyst and I’m grateful this area knocked on my door in my sixties

[kirbycobain]

I really appreciate your approach to astrology. I was practically born a skeptic and have remained that way, except for a new age phase that culminated in a mental health crisis that taught me I can't just let magical thinking answer everything for me. Even having sworn off of spirituality entirely if there's no empirical evidence, I was never able to let go of astrology because it just works, plain and simple. Especially as I've become more educated on the subject, while looking to be proven wrong, astrology still works despite my skepticism. I'd love to see more skeptics look into astrology below the surface, and really understand it beyond a pop astrology level. It would be fantastic to see more science based research on astrology with an advanced understanding of it

[bigcatenergy]

I would prefer it if people who don’t respect or understand astrology stay away from trying to pick it apart with studies. Scientists who are open-minded and team up with professional respected astrologers to work on this are welcome to join the party.

[ThePhilosonian]

Another important note is knowing how valuable the sun & moon’s existence is towards humankind. Without the sun & moon, nothing would grow, no serotonin would be produced, no tides would move, no seasons, no time to rest and regenerate, no concept of cycles and patterns, just nothingness.

[jupiter]

Thank you, Chris, for representing astrology with such an erudite & articulate manner - a really excellent conversation ✨🌟👏

[tomnicholson]

Should I believe in quantum mechanics even though there's no explanation for *why* it should work? (Rhetorical)

[marcio-duarte]

1:34:57 Arthur M. Young, engineer, mathematician and the inventor of the Bell helicopter (the first commercialy licensed civilian helicopter) is one example of a highly smart person that wasn't an astrologer but studied it heavily and applied it in his work, which encapsulated other scientific areas. The Geometry of Meaning, one of his books, is one example that beautifully integrated Astrology in a coherent Theory of Everything (TOE).

[ceraway]

Chris I think you’ve played a big part in the expansion of the astrology communities peak over the last few years. I’ve been studying it for the last two years now and I listen to you every week.

[healthyquadrants]

The 75% need to listen to this podcast to appreciate the validity, usefulness and complexity of astrology. It may peek the curiosity of many to research it further like your guest. Well done!

[kitten]

I don't think it matters if Astrology can be proven or not, as long as it makes you question your existence. As well as questioning what is your true self and what is societal conditioning and/or trauma. it can help you to evolve into a whole person and become to more self aware; which hopefully would lead you to being a more empathetic, compassionate, confident part of the Universe🌌💜 Astrology works for me, but I have seen charts that don't resonate with the person as much as I do with mine. I think this is because I have a natural house chart (Aries rising and so on) and the signs and house expressions are in sync even more than other people's.
Thank You Chris 🙏♏✨

[trish]

Chris is fabulous ...I wish I could have learnt Astrology in school, when i think of all the years wasted on Algebra ...uhh.

[mtmtmtmt]

my skepticism about astrology ends when it is confronted with history, as Chris did in this video. a series of videos from another channel also do this, the 1st video is The Astrology of the 2020s.

[tamasohidi]

I just want to say that I really truly hope you know how phenomenally well you do what you do, Chris, and how important a role you have played in my life in the last couple of years as a role model in how to be a great astrologer. Keep it up and I wish you even more success!

[tracysternburg]

Chris, you are such a gift and offer a validity and understanding to astrology. There is so much more to it and with and your depth of knowledge and incredibly capable way of answering these questions have allowed for astrology be given more respect and understanding for more people. So good to have you speak for all of us who practice. Always grateful for all you do, 🙏❤️

[light]

Excellent episode! My two cents about the rise of popularity - it's go to do with the Millennials and Pluto in Scorpio. I'm part of that generationally speaking. There's a rise in the need for self-awareness and people my age seek all possible tools to help them understand their complexities and find predictability in a chaotic world. There's a rise in the number of Psychology students as well.

[LoverNine]

30 minutes in and absolutely floored at how knowledgeable you are on the subject. even when pressed, you are able to present facts driven responses

[MVH-]

Around 29:00 while the discussion is covering confirmation bias: confirmation bias is the name given to a statistical observation by psychologists, itself probability-based. In recent times, scientists have turned their judgment around another concept in psychology, “the placebo effect”, This concept has been used to point to some apparent flaw in the human psyche, but is now being used by drug manufacturers and the medical profession to bring about healing. Psychology as a field of study is not itself immune from all kinds of cultural bias that prevents researchers from studying phenomena they already think they know is worthy of study or not. The scientific method must be used to ask the right questions. We may yet find that there is actually a lot more to “confirmation bias” in understanding the nature of human consciousness than the labeling of a perceived flaw. Thanks to both for keeping a window open on this as a public discussion.