Can a telescope be too big?

This video was sponsored by Brilliant.

Table of Contents:
0:00 Intro
1:11 Disclosures
2:08 Why big telescopes?
3:43 Wind
4:33 Seeing
5:44 Tripod legs
6:17 Spongy ground
7:02 Backfocus / tilt
7:41 Brilliant
8:41 Askar 130PHQ overview
10:00 Star tests (OSC)
13:40 Lunar (OSC)
14:31 Mono star tests/ issues
18:07 First light result (LRGB)

[jries]

That final image is absolutely amazing. Nice job!

[GilPaulbert]

there are no such things as telescopes, which are too big, only mounts, that are too small.

[RobertKarlBerta]

i have a Officina Stellare 152mm f8 APO triplet 1200mm fl and a f8 flat field lens that I use on my AP 1100 mount. At home it is out in open on a pier on my patio. Auto guiding is done through a 70mm refractor. Software for capture and autoguiding is Maxim DL. For remote use I use a Meade Giant Field tripod that is modified and sitting on pieces of plywood to avoid sinking in ground. I have no problem getting pin point round stars in long exposures even with single exposure times of 30-45 minutes through narrow band filters. I some times have a bit of wind but generally any scope will have an issue with wind. I found the secret is to remove any slop in mount, telescope attachment and guider mount. Also the setting numbers for the autoguider are critical. My camera is a fuill frame mono SBIG. I also sometimes use my Officina Stellare 80mm f6 APO triplet refractot in the same setup but no flat field lens. Yes I am sure wind would be less of an issue with the smaller scope but frankly it is not night and day. ONE VERY important item is to not place counter weighs far out on the counter weight shaft. Add more weight and move all weights as close as you can to the mount. If you don't do this the mount will ping-pong trying to work against gravity effects and the long lever arm effect of the weights if far out on the counter shaft. Also setting a longer delay between guider images will help minimize that ping pong effect. A longer exposure for autoguiding will also prevent you from chasing seeing issues. If you get egg or non round stars this is where it is coming from. Much of this info was suggested to me years ago by Roland Christen owner of Astro Physics.

[southernexposure]

Great video. My ground is mushy when wet. I solved that, but it takes moving extra gear for every use unless the gear can be left on site for as many days / nights as needed to gather the amount of data desired.
I made a simple triangular base of plywood and lumber which fits the tripod feet when the tripod legs are extended. The plywood and 2x4 lumber are glued and screwed together and they're sturdy and durable. The tripod feet fit on the base top, which is made a little larger than the extended tripod legs. Before setting the tripod on the base I put down flat plywood disks of a diameter (8 " or 10" or 12" ) whatever it takes to give the wet ground stability when loaded with the tripod, scope etc.
To level the triangular base I fitted the base (at the points of the trianle with t-nuts and all threads in a way that allows a very precise leveling adjustment of the base. It's not hard at all to accomplish leveling. The disks go on the ground and screwing the all threads lift / lower the base until its level. I put wing nuts on the top of each all thread which makes leveling the base quick, easy and tool less.
To help compress the ground I often set a heavy weight (I beam or railroad steel etc) on top of the base and leave the weight there for several dalight hours. Of course I remove the compression weight just a minute before mounting the tripod onto the plywood base.
The property is mine so I salted the grass where the disks go on the ground. That way I can set the base on the exact same spot every time very quickly.
While installing the base / disks the first time I used a compass and aligned the South side of the tripod East and West. That points one tripod leg North so I don't have to align the base "every time" I set the tripod up for a session. Doing that also decreases the amount of time needed for adjusting for finding polaris to maybe 5 minutes. Oh, and I drilled divots on the base top so the feet also fit in the same place every time.
To me it's worth the materials and moving the disks and base onto the location because it makes setup a lot more efficient when I use the same location a lot.
I hope this comment helps someone.

[WishIhadacabinonthemoon]

for the sponge ground problem, I made some round plates with spikes on the bottom with a washer welded on top of the round plate. Works very well on grass surface or gravel areas

[briankotak]

Nice review Nico. As always, you take the time to evaluate many different aspects of a product. Really enjoy your channel. Dr B from Manitoba, Canada 🇨🇦

[ampamp]

Great video Nico, a very nice instrument and a stunning result! I hope you dont mind me making a couple of minor points on the review.

1. I use an Orion EON 130ED on an EQ6 (almost identical physical size and weight). Every observing session I single handedly transport, set up and use it, despite an above knee leg amputation, prosthetic leg and a paralysed dominant hand. If I can do it, then any able-bodied person can. Its true you can make easier or harder choices as you prefer, and getting it right calls for a realistic self-assessment of one's enthusiasm, but I don't think that couch potatoes with too much money deserve to be constantly warned about lovely big telescopes like this! Just let them buy the stuff if they want it, and offload it later if its wrong for them. That helps to stimulate the market, and makes gear available at more affordable prices for the real active enthusiasts.

2. I reliably get 1.5 arcsec rms guiding with an Orion 50mm Mini guidescope and an asi120MM (unless its windy). This is close to the atmospheric stability limit in 'good' seeing (1"-2") and the Rayleigh/Dawes limits (1.2"/0.9") for a 5 inch refractor, so I'd say an OAG isn't at all necessary especially at f/7 (or f/5.6 reduced). A piggyback setup is a $200 saving and is easier to setup.

3. The Askar is a very good quadruplet astrograph specialised for full frame photography at a premium price. A definite contender for serious RGB & narrowband work on nebulae. At $4K vs $2.6K (Q3 2022 prices) for an Orion, Explore Scientific, or Skywatcher 5" APO any of the triplets is better suited to intermediate/beginners (with an as yet unformed and roving interest). If matched to a small sensor OSC camera like the asi533mc pro on an EQ6 the triplets will be more than enough for a couple of years of deepsky, and is versatile enough to use with a barlow and a planetary camera like the 462mc for sun, moon and planets. The triplets are excellent visual instruments too.

[JenhamsAstro]

Hi Nico, this was a great choice for a video topic. My 80mm apo AP results are nowhere near in your league, but it hasn't stopped me wondering about getting a bigger frac. If I'm honest I know I have room to improve with my existing setup before going big on the glass. Thanks for sharing the possibilities. Graham

[ckott]

Nico, I solved my spongy ground problem with 3 bricks. 3 big bricks to set the tripod upon. Adding more weight to an already heavy setup to haul around is a bit depressing, but it really helped bring up my percentage of keepers.

[michaelaum]

Thank you for pointing out that the radial warped stars came from back focus, because I am facing the exact issue on my 70-300mm lens (not on the 70-200). Then I remembered that I changed the focus alignment of the lens inside the cam a few years ago because of the polarization filter I put on. :)

[jodyschultz]

Solid review. I have an 81mm refractor and a C9.25 on a cgx. I do lust for a 130mm refractor but I had not thought about hitting the tripod and needing a pier. Good point.

[dmintz]

Awesome review, Nico! And wonderful final image!

[keithsmith]

Great video Nico. Your Channel has been my go to for info in this Hobby. I am 40 years old and got my first telescope 2 Christmas ago from my parents Meade130EQ(Bird jones)w smartphone adapter. Needless to say when I produced a shot of Orion I was hooked and 6 months later picked out my version of "The Gateway Drug" (EOS M6 Mkii + Star Adventurer 2i Pro) 2 months later we slapped an SV503 and matching flattener. Like a noob we were pushing the limits of the 2i but with good balance and PA with 30sec subs we were blown away when we seen the first stacked and stretched Orion. in Photoshop Thanks to your tutorials. Thank You so much for sharing your knowledge of this fun and satisfying hobby. My wife is doing it with me so we watch you, Trevor, and Cuiv all the time. We now have an HEQ5P and Apertura 8RC Carbon, and let me tell you at 1624mm its a whole different ball game like you said. Guiding is mandatory and now I have to find videos on RC ins and outs. Sorry for the Novel folks its my first outreach. Rest of my comments will be shorter. I don't know where else to put it. Clear Skies... Hopefully ;)

[AstroQuest]

Excellent video Nico. Watching this was like watching my last 7-years wrapped up into 3 minutes. I know you like to travel to dark sites rather hang out in your backyard but if you do stay at home there are things to make it a lot easier which you are probably aware of. I have three cement squares perfectly aligned and leveled to the north for my tripod legs - no sinking (I have a scope buggy which I set a brick under each leg position of the scope buggy base and that rests on the cement squares). The 8" extender makes a big difference as well so the equipment never hits the tripod - even beyond 90 degrees. - Cheers Kurt

[alineradventureswithsimons]

Really cool Nico! Beautiful image with this monster.

[ericbenitez]

Hey Nico, not sure if it would work but maybe try using furniture slide disks under the tripod feet to help sinking. They offer wide disks that handle alot of weight and it would disperse the weight a bit more evenly.

[MSSwanson]

Nico, I just purchased an Orion EON 130 mm telescope and I appreciate the information about large refractors. Based on your video, I'm building a wind break from a large metal deck tarp I just retired. Also, thanks for sharing about adding 1/3 the thickness of my filter to the focus back plane. I'd never heard that before.

[n-da-bunka]

GREAT video! I have been running a Skywatcher 100ED (Doublet with the accessory SW flatener-reducer) for a couple of years and am always tempted to step up to a slightly larger triplet. Money is not the concern it was 2 years ago when I picked up the 100ED and TBH I can sell my used 100ED for 50% more than I paid for it back then so...this video is very relevant to my current conundrum

[RS-jzyu]

Nico, I love the video. I'm glad to see you working with some new/bigger equipment. Very educational. I hope this doesn't mean you will stop working with wider field scopes. Sometimes content providers outgrow their viewers. I hope you will do some of each. Keep up the great work!

[simonpepper]

Hi Nico I have had the exact same issues with my ES127 it’s taken me a year to figure that out including mount upgrades, OAG, back spacing, threaded adapters been a nightmare! I have a flattener but non reducing so will try that too. Out of all these the best thing I did was getting rid of the compression ring and use threaded adapters that showed the best improvements. Great video!