Romans 8:29-30 and Predestination

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[RezG_]

5:17 By the way, this is how I always understood it reading the Bible on my own and looking into the Greek. That the ones God knew before (the Jews stuck in Abraham's bosom), He set a plan to make them Christians too.

Jesus was the firstborn among many brethrens because of this plan, when he set the captives free.

It wasn't until I came across the ideas of Calvinism that I saw the idea of pre-destiny for current believers.

I think the idea of them being Jews is not anti-Calvinism specifically, because it wasn't until I came across the false dichotomy of Calvin vs Arminius that I started interpreting this passage as pre-destiny vs predestination of current believers, instead of just the plan for the dead Jews to become glorified alongside Jesus.

[jefferypassagecpa]

According to Calvinism, if God receives glory (from whom they don't say) in the damnation of zillions of people, then the only way He receives absolute maximal glory would be in the damnation of every human. Calvinism is a blight to Christianity.

[naturematt]

Jack Hibbs sermon good good sovereignty part 3 utterly slaughters Romans 8:28-29.

[montyeason]

Calvinist (I believe) have such a hard time seeing the error of their way because they honestly think (though falsely) that to respond to the Gospel(what scripture says is obeying the Gospel) would mean a works salvation. THerefore they have to have it where you are regenerated first before any response on our part is made. However, responding to the grace of God through faith in God to the Good News is God's plan.

[Mag-tsit]

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
God bless you

[MichaelLander-pkmy]

Thanks Kevin. Context here: persecution is increasIng and Paul is prepping them for the great tribulation which is about to come in 8-10 years in their future, not ours. The adoption of sons (aka the resurrection, redemption of the body) is ‘about to’ happen in their future which Rom 8:18 says explicitly in the Greek. It should read “the glory which is about to be revealed in us”. English translators usually edit out the verb ‘mello’ in verses found in eschatological contexts. You will find this censorship in many key eschatological passages which actually indicate Christ’s second coming, judgment of apostate Israel, and the resurrection of OT and NT saints would happen in their lifetime. ‘Creation’ is a covenant term for OT believers. They are in Sheol awaiting the resurrection in this time period. OT saints are who God ‘foreknew’ in the past (Rom 11:2) and are waiting for what they were predestined for. The saints who are alive in this transition period were also waiting be resurrected (Rom 8:11) in their lifetime.

[JgodAlpha]

I think they can’t see it because of the fear of being proven not chosen or not elect in their eyes. The Calvinist gospel is so insidious that if people challenge it, many would label them as having an evanescent faith.

I think until they are convinced that rejecting Calvinism isn’t the same as rejecting. The gospel, it’s like pulling teeth on a tiger

[PrudenceMcFrugal]

The reason why I personally believe “foreknew” refers to Israel is because Paul himself refers to Israel as the people whom God foreknew in Romans 11. Paul can take a long time to finally complete his thought and I feel like he finally completes the thoughts he starts in Romans 8 in chapter 11. But it’s also worth noting the past tense of the verbs in the supposed “golden chain of redemption”. Paul must be referring to people who knew God before, or were known by Him before (which were mostly Israelites though there were others of course), who have already passed on to the point of having been glorified by God (and also technically glorified, in a sense, by us through the legacy they left behind in their faith & service to God.)

[anthonywhitney]

Thanks for your work on this - I still have one issue in my mind about this passage, the 'calling'. The passage can be read to mean that the 'calling' is to a specific group, ie those he foreknew, and so that could be read to mean they were called whilst others weren't. Thanks in advance.

[keng]

Roman’s 1 Reprobate Doctrine - do you have any videos that debunk or validate it? That there are ppl who can’t get saved?

[killuafanboy]

Hey Kevin could you maybe do a video on Hebrews 10:26 it's hard to look at verses without doctrinal baggage especially when people use verses like those as proof-texts of there position. I do try to look at it neutrally but its really hard cause when I see certain things in scripture I get emotional. Scared. If I see something talking about things sinners/ unbeliever's do my brain just goes, "I do those thing! So does that make me an unbeliever? Does that mean I might not really be saved and just think I am?"

Pretty much all of 1 John puts me in that panicy mindset. Maybe it's a good thing but I don’t think it is with how it causes me to take my eyes off Jesus and doing what God wants me to do.