FOREKNOWN? Revisiting Romans 8:29-30

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, anticipates some condescending rebuttals to his interpretation of Romans 8:29 and reads through another scholar's perspective.

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[GraveMistake]

A meek, humble, loving attitude is what is needed to bring the truth to those caught in the snare of Calvinism . I am learning so much by watching your videos especially by your generous behavior to help people see the truth. Praise God for His helps and blessings to give us understanding about this important issue by way of such loving brethren.

[preacherpreach]

Anyone else hype that the opening song is back????

[ironlion]

Gracious, loving, humble.
Thank you for standing your theological ground in the midst of youtube theology gone terribly mean-spirited

[JP-mqzc]

Thank you Dr. Leighton Flowers. Your message was helpful to me to counter an atheist's argument that Christian God is cruel and and partial.

[kimsteel]

Wow! This is so good!! I'm seeing that passage in a totally new light! And it's way better than I saw it before! Thank you again, Doc Flowers, for speaking the simple, beautiful, untainted truth of God's word! 👏👏

[kimberleerivera]

Glory To GOD!!!
Thank you Leighton Flowers!
Satan comes as a minister of light. I believe Calvinism is a strong spirit of error.
1st Corinthians 13:13 - "Now abide these three, faith, hope, love, with love being the greatest."

On the other hand, I have a Calvinist pastor who seems to be very kind and caring ( to those who are of the Calvinistic view.)

[greyknight]

I tried to listen to Dr. White’s podcast and I couldn’t get past the first 10 min. Dr. White is so arrogant in how he deals with his brothers in Christ. It’s a real shame because I hear from his opposition all the time how knowledgeable he is, but his blatant antagonism of other Christian apologists and theologians turns me off right away. I pray he realizes his own folly and makes attempts to make amends with his brothers.

[JacquelineRPrice]

I'm always so encouraged listening to you, Dr. Flowers. Thank you again for showing me the loving, sacrificial heart of our gracious Lord and Savior.

[charlienew]

James White needs to apologize to a lot of people.

[oprophetisfake]

I am so glad to hear someone expressing the Arminian perspective on foreknowledge instead of the ridiculous demigod version of the delorean. The Calvinist does not even begin to understand the foreknowledge or omniscience of God. They simply don't understand that God can know all things unless He is the one causally determining everything. They don't recognize omniscience as a separate quality of God but relegate it under His omnipotence. But then they don't understand his omnipotence either. They don't understand that God can have the ability, and have everything, under His command, if He does not use it to make all things conform to His perfect desire. That is why they deny any real agency to men or angels and end up with a system that cannot but make God causally responsible for evil.
They just end up with a complete control freak god. How can you love God, if there is no real freedom? Under Calvinism there is no way to truly love God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength either their god MAKES you love Him which is not real love, or he leaves you totally unable to love him. Calvinism just makes it impossible to even try to conform with or fulfill the greatest commandment. Or the second, for that matter. As your love of God is forced or nonexistent, so your love for your neighbour is likewise a fiction forced by the Calvinist god's agency and not yours at all.

[JohnQPublic]

Is there anything more depraved, more degenerate, more reprobate, more immoral, more perverted, more down right devilishly evil than going around telling everybody the GOD of the Bible creates and predestines *people to barbecue in Hell* for HIS own good selfish glory and HIS own good sadistic pleasure? … No, no, there isn’t.

[sammig.]

The main thing I always heard growing up in a reformed Babtist church was that "foreknow" isn't talking about knowing something ahead of time but actually had more to do with an intimate love. Some would say you could read it as, "Those whom God foreloved." I've read an article on this topic, though, that foreknow does use the Greek word for know, but it could carry the idea of a loving relationship depending on the context. So it can be understood both ways. My thought is this: "How does God love us in a deep and personal way?" Jesus said, "No one can come to the Father except through me." In order for us to have a deep, loving relationship with God and to be known by him in that kind of way, we must believe on Jesus, because there is no way to be reconciled with God and have relationship with him except by Jesus. So I think it makes sense that God loved those whom he knew ahead of time would have a personal relationship to him by faith in his Son Jesus. To be clear, I think God also loves those who never come to him in faith, but I think it is different because it lacks the close, mutual relationship, just like a Christian's love for his enemies would be different than his love for his wife.

[Real_LiamOBryan]

Reading Romans with a Calvinistic lens is very weird because you can see the theme, mentioned several times in almost every single chapter of the book, of Jew/Gentile and Law/Faith. Reading it as the Calvinist does pulls you out of that context/theme into little blurbs here and there about predestination and other Calvinist watchwords. Don't take my word for it! Go through the book of Romans and simply highlight everything that speaks about Jew, Gentile, Law, Works, Faith, etc. You will see that that is the theme. That is the context. This also entails that the text, while applying to individuals, is primarily about people groups.


If I pastored several churches, and I elected one of them to do some task of evangelism, then have I elected the individuals in that church to do evangelism. Of course! However, I have not, therefore, elected them individually. They are elected in virtue of belonging to the group. This election is primarily about the group and only secondarily about the individuals. That is the most natural reading of Romans. Jews and Gentiles have been elected in virtue of being believers in Christ. All who believe on Christ are elected, Jew and Gentile alike.


What more natural interpretation is there for Romans 9:20-24? We must interpret in light of the context of Jew and Gentile. How does a primarily individual election/predestination even accord with the obvious primacy of group election/predestination in v. 24? The idea also seems obvious that we should look for other passages about potters and clay for clues about the meaning of this text. Is it a coincidence that Jeremiah 18 describes the potter and clay as God doing what he wills with the Jewish nation and other nations? I think not!


Can someone help me figure out why I should prefer the seemingly forced Calvinistic interpretation of Romans over this more natural one?

[makedisciples]

Thank you Pastor. So Biblical and it does flow logically. Now it is time to make this interpretation something I can be conversant with. Be reformed to the word of God

[orangepeel]

Thank you very much for your teaching.

[carolinelvsewe]

What will never stop bugging me is that following one man in such a staunch way of 5 points NOT listed out in the word is wrong. Just talk about the scripture as you teach it and the Holy Spirit leads not a man or a plan on either side. Sounds simple and is. You are so right about James White. I use to follow him but realized he has one agenda with 5 points.

[RCSNIPER]

Thank you so much for your help understanding what the text actually means and not taking it out of context! Back when I first heard one of Dr. Whites videos when I was a new born again Christian, I thought I was listening to a different gospel and it made me question everything I had understood up to that point. But, luckily I came across one of your videos and it made so much sense and didn't contradict the Bible. Thank you so much for your help and everything you do to make things clear! I know that I am responsible for my actions and God isn't making me do anything. I don't understand how someone could twist the Bible to make it sound like we are all pretty much just robots and we have no free will.

[rtgray]

YES!! THE CORRECT OPENING SONG IS BAACK!!!

[qcbtbx]

Love this perspective on the text in question!

[dustinpaulson]

Another hard-hitting episode. Keep swinging that axe of truth against the root of error!