Epic vs Apple: Did Valve and Steam Just Make Epic's Case? (VL420)

With the official Epic vs Apple court fight (at least) 3 months away, the parties continue the unheralded and resource-intensive process of pulling thousands of documents together from all corners of the globe.

And one of those corners? Bellvue, Washington, home of the little PC company that could, Valve Corporation.

But what's Valve got to do with it? Quite a lot actually.

Let's jump in.

Maybe they should have tried to subpoena Half-Life 3...in Virtual Legality.

#Epic #Apple #Valve

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CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:30 A Subpoena Fight
15:28 The Subpoena Power
20:39 The Importance of Setting the Market
24:42 Conclusion (Valve Makes Epic's Case)

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Discussed in this episode:

"An Antitrust Epic"
YouTube Playlist - Hoeg Law

"Apple subpoenas Valve as part of its legal battle with Epic: Valve fights back"
PC Gamer - February 19, 2021

Joint Discovery Letter - Epic v Apple

"Subpoena"
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure: Rule 45

"Injunction Disjunction: Epic Loss for Fortnite/Epic Win for Unreal! (VL336)"
YouTube Video - October 10, 2020 - Hoeg Law

Epic v Apple Preliminary Injunction Order
October 9, 2020

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"Virtual Legality" is a continuing series discussing the law, video games, software, and everything digital, hosted by Richard Hoeg, of the Hoeg Law Business Law Firm (Hoeg Law).

CHECK OUT THE REST OF VIRTUAL LEGALITY HERE:

DISCUSSION IS PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE. INDIVIDUALS INTERESTED IN THE LEGAL TOPICS DISCUSSED IN THIS VIDEO SHOULD CONSULT WITH THEIR OWN COUNSEL.

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Twitch: @hoeglaw

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DESIGN WORK
Joe Ellis (Logo Design)
Chris Leroux (Motion Graphics)
For more information: contact Chris at @Chrisleroux on Twitter.

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[HoegLaw]

Maybe they should have tried to subpoena Half-Life 3...in Virtual Legality.

[andrewmontague]

Valve doesn't want to share their numbers because everyone will be confused why the number 3 is missing... 🙄

[tippyc]

Apple: Hey Valve, give us all your sales history.
Valve: What are you smoking?

Seriously though, the legal world is so infuriating. 2 of Valve's competitor's sue each other, and that somehow compels Valve, an uninvolved third party, to divulge confidential information to its competitors? That's fucked up.

[facemcshooty]

Gabe: welcome to court fortress 2. After 9 years in the case, hopefully, it has been worth the wait.

[Hope_Beyond]

This almost feels like Apple trying to get information on how steam works so it can use that information for a desktop version of apple arcade( marketed twords the M1 macs ).

[stefan]

I dont realy understand how a company can just be like. Yeah I want your information. And then a judge is allowed to tell them they need to give that information.

[HappyMrGhost]

Apple just wants to see if it's worth starting their own gaming platform

[v]

Ex-Apple fans. "I don't care if Epic wins. I just want Apple to lose."

[dahlia]

If Valve is eventually compelled to provide this information, I have a hard time believing it will truly be kept confidential and that nobody in Apple's chain of management will ever see it. I've worked in high tech for quite some time and I know how valuable this kind of information can be, and ways it could damage a company like Valve if it gets into the wrong hands. I do believe Apple is a competitor to Valve and some in their management team might find improper use of it too tempting.

Apple is very secretive with this kind of information related to their business. Perhaps there's a reason?

[zenniththefolf]

Apple: "I'm angry, I need to harass some random uninvolved company"

[WahyuSetiawan-szlc]

We are talking about apple product store monoply.

Apple : No, we are talking about the WHOLE market..yes! Yes! Including pc game market that we are hardly even part of.

[paul_hankin]

Apple Arcade has exclusivity deals that prevent games from being on Android but still allows those games to be on consoles and PCs. This suggests to me that Apple themselves consider the market they complete in to be mobile devices only.

[annabella]

So by their own logic, are Apple going to try and drag Sony, Microsoft and any digital disturbers that have an App on their platform?

Among other things, that’s going to be a pain to go through it and get hold of. It’s also going to ruffle a lot of feathers and I don’t see it going down well; at the very least a lot of other companies are probably going to try and give them a middle finger.

[MerkySalmon]

Valve to Apple: Get back to us when you figure out how to sell an in-game skin for $150, 000

[toffeecrisp]

I'm not surprised that Gabe and Valve, would take a firm "neutral stance" in this particular battle, while making it clear to Apple, don't take too many liberties, by way of an allusion to market definition, in line with Epics take. I feel like this is Valves warning shot. Back off.

[ChillyJack]

The subpoena definitely seems abusive and overly broad. Unfortunately judges are known for boomering any decision related to tech.

[Ikcatcher]

Valve joining in like a Smash Bros character reveal

[therealfridayth]

...forget the unreasonableness, this reeks of irrelevance: Steam is not the only distributor on PC, while Apple is the only distributor on iOS. Software is less like cars and more like car stereo harnesses: certain ones only work on certain cars. And software on PC will not work on iOS without severe tweaking. Hell, Windows software won't work on Linux! Apple is full of it here.

[Xeraghusta]

Valve: "I hate you"
Epic: "The feeling is mutual"
Valve: "However just this once I will help you"
Both of them turn to face the monster know as Apple in the distance.

[ralphengland]

I cant help but see Apple and Epic as being dishonest here. It seems clear that the relevant market is mobile gaming- phones and tablets... not just the iOS platform like Epic says, and certainly not ALL video game distribution like Apple wants.

Epic’s logic would turn a singular target store into a relevant market. Apple would have Target in the same market as “any place you can buy stuff.”