Why Are We Afraid to be Pagan?

We call our divine experiences UPG, SPG, and VPG. We're reconstructionists, revivalists, eclectics. We define our tradition by the pantheon we worship. These are just facts in the pagan community...or are they?

Mastodon:

Special thanks to JACandQuill for the Channel Emotes!

[IkedaHakubi]

"Faith Ain't Fear!" has helped me more than you may ever know.

[IkedaHakubi]

I think you made the right choice by publishing this.

[Sparkbomber]

Definitely a video that will help the hellenistic/pagan communities. Nuanced, concise and thoughtprovoking. Us atheists can at a minimum get a bit better understanding of what our friends go through, neh?

[SlavicDeerGirl]

the video helped me get out of my trench of autistic thought patterns, and realize that so much of the issue with UPG/SPG/VPG had everything to do with years of reinforced connotations and preconceptions. You've convinced me to stop using the _PG labels for my own praxis and work, we don't need acronyms which cause confusion and miscommunication and doubt, when we can just speak more fully and openly in the first place. The pantheon discussion helped me understand an issue witin Slavic polytheism, I really think the issue with Russian supremacy/bias is heavily propped up by this mess of recon-vs-revival and pantheons as foundations of identities; They feel they need these Baltic/Finnic/etc gods to be Russian because they need to follow a "100% Slavic pantheon" or they don't feel Slavic, they're afraid of loosing their identity through mixing the way the ancients did. And now I have what I need to help prevent new problems of the same kinds in my own communities. All the insight here was just very valuable, another great video and a POS worth the 1-year wait

[AetherTales]

Another solid contribution to the pagan community from Aliakai. Thank you!

I've mentioned elsewhere that I did not encounter the UPG/SPG/VPG taxonomy until I started following pagan YouTube in 2020, though I've been a polytheist since the mid-1970s. While I was certainly a relatively reclusive polytheist, I was always interested in keeping abreast of pagan news, and developments in relevant scholarship and archeology. I felt I was fairly well informed.

This is to say that I believe the *PG acronyms, which are supposed to have existed for decades, made ZERO impact on any outside communities, until perhaps very very recently. I never encountered the terms on The Wild Hunt or the various Patheos blogs I followed. Despite editing a range of pagan-related articles, the taxonomy never surfaced during my time when I was a dedicated Wikipedia editor. Never heard it at a convention.

I'm aware that the taxonomy has helped many pagans in various ways, including as an introductory understanding of polytheism. The Gods will indeed employ every tool to lead and enlighten us. But please bear in mind: It's okay to outgrow and move past things. If something no longer fits, that's a clue! I have dedicated an entire shelf to books that inspired me or my life partner early in our spiritual journey-- that no longer inspire, or are just plainly way off the mark.

The challenges to the usefulness of the *PG categories should be taken as good faith efforts to improve mutual understanding. The Gods' involvements in our lives are not going to fit in tidy Linnaean boxes. Humans need structure, but we need to be prepared to grow past them into new ones. Isn't that a major feature of polytheism to celebrate?

[dexaria]

I would love that vid on syncretism! It is my jam (both academically and religiously)

[thirdcoastfirebird]

I agree with you on all of this. The Gods speak to us how they please, and we should all be aware of that fact. Keep up the great work.

[Dragon]

My own supernatural experiences are a little harder to put into any category since they're first-person dreams where I experience small snippets of the future. (In such a way where I'm already aware of having seen it in a dream even in the dream itself, so I've never actually been able to forcibly change an outcome.)

[duskhze]

This was fantastic. Really provoked a lot of thought for me around my own praxis and made me reflect on how it’s grown and changed over the years. Thank you for your work!

[braetondavis]

Great video and loved seeing all of the positive discourse in the chat, you’re helping foster a healthy pagan community Aliakai!

[auroraarder]

Thank you so much for this. As someone new to Hellenism this is extremely freeing. I'm going to take these perspectives to heart moving forward. Thank you!

[Elcomodoro]

Part 3 of this video was particularly impactful for me. I'm a self described Druid. As one might imagine, most of the Deities I engage with are from the Irish pantheon. I also give offerings and engage in reciprocity with a few non-celtic Deities. I usually keep that pretty "close to the vest", but you're right! "Why?!" There is room in the wide world for more than one pantheon; why should there not be room in my praxis?!

Thank you for the SUPREMELY high quality content that keeps me and literally thousands of others subscribed to your channel!

[oceanstar]

Excellent video on a topic needing examination in our community. Especially liked the part where you head off the "then what is a hellenist if not..." at the pass.

[ShinyAvalon]

Another thoughtful, thorough, and insightful exploration of complex and tricky subjects in Paganism. Thank you.

[theevilbaby]

Love the way it the vid was broken down. Shared it with my local community.

[fenndev]

Great video as usual! UPG, SPG, and VPG seem like great concepts on the surface, but you did an excellent job tackling many of the issues I've noticed with them.

If we understand the gods to be alive, then it follows that the gods can and do change - they're dynamic. There are equally problematic tendencies to either hypermodernize & trivialize the gods (i.e. 'I went clothes shopping with Aphrodite today and I'm about to go play League with Dionysus"), or to treat them as though they are museum pieces, static and unchanging (i.e. 'the gods never communicate with people, if it isn't backed up in myth it didn't happen', etc.).

Additionally, if we believe them to be alive, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the gods have different relationships - with varying degrees of interaction and intensity - with different people. I don't act the same way around my conservative aunt & uncle as I do around my queer friends. I wouldn't expect a god to act the same way around me as they do with another practitioner or follower, although some commonalities might be noted (which is what I think is valuable with SPG).

[jtztbassman]

Divine Experience, yes. Odin is a solar deity. I'm not going to defend that claim, here. Find me in the Discord, and I'll be happy to discuss it. Though, I will say that Ares and Hephaestus bore witness to that be of learning.

[FaireKnight]

When the labels we glomp onto things decide more than the things we claim are the root of what are the movement in the first place. Oh huzzah and joy.... (If I could slap more sarcasm onto this, I would)

[-B]

The section from 17:53 to roughly 19:00 was incredibly moving, I started tearing up. I absolutely love your content, thank you for making such amazing videos ❤

[SebastianSeanCrow]

18:10 I think I said something similar on another video about this topic but imo if something has historical precedent, we should cite the sources esp when it comes to education and if something is a personal experience just say it’s a personal experience
In fact I’ve seen people who’ve done tons of studying talk about their experiences and even though at the end they tag “this is just UPG” the way they talked about it was deeply personal and very obviously based off their personal experiences in relation to said subject
Like if I write in my journal about a divine experience I’m not gonna say my UPG I’m just gonna write about my experience and if I talk to someone else I’ll just say it’s my experience
I’ve only seen UPG/SPG/VPG be useful on blog sites with those big lists of info using shorthand’s to differentiate between points and outside of that idk how useful it is
An example would be like “x god loves strawberry shortcake (UPG), x god is known to do x thing (SPF), x god is considered to hold x thing sacred (sources cited)”