When Fuel Injection Fails It's Time for the Carb

Failing Harley fuel injection especially on pre 2002 models is pretty common, the old Magneti Marelli has some issues but you do have options. Harley's first fuel injected models started in 1995 with Magneti Marelli and this system was used through 2001 when in the 2002 model year Harley switched to the much more reliable Delphi system. So before you buy a 2001 or earlier fuel injected Harley you'll want to know what you're getting into. These early systems have issues, problems are hard to diagnose, tuning for performance isn't really an option. Fortunately you have a couple options, you can convert to a new Delphi injection system or even convert the bike back over to a carburetor.

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[GixxerFoo]

Have you converted your fuel injected Evo over to a carburetor, the new Delphi setup or still running the old Mag system?

[hokaheyrider]

13:34 I’m a carb guy and recently bought an 03 FI Road King.
I also bought an all inclusive conversion kit from Broken Sprocket Garage to do the carb conversion.
Although the Delphi system is working fine, I’ve noticed that some parts are no longer available and I prefer to be proactive rather than reactive.
I’ll continue to ride it until next fall/winter when I intend to just do the conversion.
Thanks for putting up this vid as well as all your others.

[brandonbaron]

Great video. And yes converting to carb of Delphi is always a nice option. But for those who still are running the MM system I do have a few tips and tricks to help solve some of the main problems with them. I've been tuning harleys from flat heads to current M8 models for 18+ years. And have used every carb and efi system out there (including all the different flash tuners, replacement ECM and piggyback systems out there) so off the bat I yes I have a good grasp on these things. The first thing you have to remember is that the MM system is VERY basic in its workings. Most of the time if the ecm itself is fine its usually something basic wrong with them. Idle problems usually being the most common. Here are the most common issues I run into with the MM 1. Intake seals, If you have ever removed the throttle body for an MM bike you will see that the fitment of the manifold between the heads is very loose, more so on the EVO bikes. James makes a intake seal to replace the standard 26995-86B with a seal that covers the end of the manifold like a hat. this makes the manifold wider for a tighter seal. This is a must for these if you are replacing them. I used them for the first time back 2002 and I always use them now. Leaking intake seals give the engine somewhere else to draw air in. And like i said these are a very simple and basic EFI. Both cold and hot idles use manual screw settings like a carburetor and don't have the ability to chase idle. 2. Lately I have had several MM bikes that came in running, But running like total crap. After checking and in tern replacing the leaking intake seals, idles improved but there was something else not quite right. Some did have multiple ECM codes, others did not. Each one was fixed by replacing the system and EFI relays. Due to the age of the them the contacts inside have seen a better day. And again being a simple system, unlike modern EFI systems, when the detect low voltage they shutdown to protect themselves, MM don't. They will still try to run and with the low voltage they can not supply both sensors and injectors with proper operating voltage. I have also found myself changing them on later Delphi bikes, mostly the main 30 or 40 amp main breaker. 3. Injector Wires. This applies to the MM and the early Delphi systems. When the bikes are made Harley uses the GIVE THEM JUST ENOUGH WIRE mentality. Both on the MM and early Delphi (PRE 2006) the wires are quite tight. Over time the up and down motion of the engine can cause the copper wire inside to brake. and once that last copper strand breaks it becomes a big Buell Blast. The outside of the wire will look fine but once removed from the injector you'll find it to be a limp noodle usually right at the connector. Adding a inch to the wires with new connector pins fixes it right up. 4. Crank and Cam position sensors. A good rule of thumb is if you are still running the stock cam and crank sensors, you should change them on principle. Mainly the crank position sensor. The crank sensor is the ECM's eyes and is how it calculates the engine's rotational position. If it can't see, it can't run. But most importantly the stock sensors for both MM and some early Delphi, the end of the sensor closest to the crank has and exposed metal point on it directly attached the mile long angle hair coil winding. If the piece comes loose you'll have all that winding in your crank bearings and then your bottomend is porked. Harley revised the sensors to be enclosed with both the replacement and later sensors to avoid this problem. 5. Engine temp sensor and wires. Now I've change lots and I mean lots of engine temp sensors on MM to present bikes. But with the MM they can really make your day suck. Being a very simple system they use the engine temp data for most of it operation. If you have a MM that runs well then as your riding falls on it's face hard, and after setting for a bit the bike run fine again, it's probably the engine temp sensor. The wires can also suffer from the aforementioned just long enough problem. And remember, broken wires will trip an ecm code. Bad sensor may not. As long as the reading from the sensor are within operational range it won't trip a code. Think of it like this. Running down the road hot you'll be around 240 Deg F. Now all of the sudden the ecm thinks its now at -10 deg F. Thinking the bike is in a block of ice the ecm adjust fuel and timing for that temp. But because it' still in its operational range it didn't trip a code. Delphi is worlds smarter and can usually see a massive and fast temp drop and throw a code. Those are most of the main issues I deal with when it comes to the MM system. I'm not saying don't upgrade to a Delphi replacement or carbing the bike, but it can be an expensive upgrade that alot of my customer can't afford. The MM system does have its limitations, I would NEVER throw a 124in Crate engine behind it hoping to make it run. But I have done both 95 in and 103 in kits with 105+ HP & TRQ and made them run great. Use of a Powercommander or a Techno Research Directlink flashing tool (Like a Race Tuner, Powervision, TTS but for the MM) will have to be used but there is still life left in the old MM bikes for those who are on a budget. And please use premium fuel. With the trash fuel we are stuck with today, I run 93 in my push mower. The buck or two you might spend at the pump is well worth the better running of the bike. :)

[scrapyarddogjs]

Switched my 98 Electra glide classic over to carburetor. Pangel kit for the tank, forward facing petcock, CV40 carb, Intake and gasket, PVC crossover tube "for the head breathers", and Daytona twin tech ignition with the single fire coil. Hardest thing to locate was the breather backing plate. Ignition came with instructions. you'll need to replace the rotor bug from a single window to the dual window. Won't be able to static time the system. Didn't need anything from a harness. The only thing that didn't work when I fired it up was the tach. Just had to locate that wire and boom done. My oil pressure gauge, and fuel gauge all worked like they should. Removed all the extra wiring for the EFI, with no issues. Runs like a champ, just road it to Lake Charles, LA and back 1500miles without any mechanical issues. Have about 5k now still good.

[kennethwise]

I threw my Magneti Merrelli EFI in the trash about 8 years ago and my Evo has never ran better. Did all the work myself and purchased everything I needed to do the conversion. 55 mpg and runs FANTASTIC

[davidswick]

You just help me make the decision to sell, and cut my losses. I was lucky, 100k on the bike with no problems until now. Thanks for the video!

[chrisl.]

I would go with the Mikuni HSR42…it’s an excellent Carb, never let me down !

[SuperCultosaurus]

I just got myself a 'new to me' bike, not a Harley. But, fully carbureted, air cooled, and for exactly the reasons you talked about. I didn't ever want to be stuck on the side of the road with a computer/injector/sensor problem. I can live with the complications of old school far easier than I can live with the complications of trying to figure out what's wrong with a fuel injected system. I can fix a carb, I can't fix a computer controller.

[josephcivita]

I got rid of it on my 2002 RK. I'm running a Ramjet one piece intake and a Mikuni 42mm flat slide. I'm running a Thunderheart ignition that works with the stock crank sensor. I used a Pingle petcock kit for the injected gas tank. I love it. No more pain in the ass fuel filter in the gas tank. And I now have reserve.

[shanecoker]

What’s really fun is when my 2011 Ultra limited starts running very badly after about 25 miles of riding and take it to the dealership for repair. Then after they change fuel pump assembly, ECM, O2 sensors, Throttlebody assembly and they tell you it’s the wiring to the “Map sensor” connector. That’s not a serviceable part and requires a wiring harness replacement on the bike.

[sullivantim]

First, thanks Gix for your videos. I know you must put in a ton of research on them. Well done! I recently finished a Mag to CV conversion on my low mileage 98 FLHP and couldn't be happier. The M&M rig worked fine. I'm just an old school guy that believes simple is better so I feel better with the carb setup on the road and far away. I simply unplugged all the shit on the EFI harness, Coiled it up neatly and secured it under the left side cover, Took off the throttle body and all the associated crap in the tank. Put in a Pingle petcock with their adapter and plug. I replaced the stock ignition with the Dynatek 2000 stand alone single fire ignition which I only had to cypher out and tap into the the stock ignition feed and in my case the Police tach. Real easy! I found a barely used CV carb that I went through and regasketed. Gathered up the intake and proper filter/breather mount. I replaced the top motor mount to the carb style one (mainly for the VOES and choke cable). Put on a VOES. Got several jets and dialed it all in. The only snafu was getting the right ignition timing cup. It was a fun project. Glad I did it. BTW my buddies 95 FLT has over 60K with the M&M and it's never missed a beat,

[jimmyp]

Staying with my Linkert M74 B its a controlled gas leak !
You are 100 % correct on fuel injection, when its running its great, when it acts up, its a nightmare .

[jamesball]

Gixxer, as always, this was an excellent segment! I chose to build my custom 95" Softail Twin Cam with a Mikuni 42 and am very satisfied with the results. I debated early on whether to go F.I. or carb so for me a Harley has always been a machine that is carbureted, mean and lean, sounding as well as running great!

[garychandler]

Gxrfu...you are the MAN! Thank God I have the last '05 carbed bike, a few cheap jets, Andrews 21 cams, and your blessings!
I LIVE in the POWERBAND!!!

[scrumthebum]

A couple guys at the track with EFI sportsters had extensive work ( more than stage 4 ) and were still getting killed by carb sportsters in a strict rule 1230cc max class.
They switched over to S&S E & dropped 1/2 second in the 1/8 th.
Since then most of the class has switched to Alcohol S&S B carburetor’s

[gregortloff]

I have a 2000 RK Classic.
It came stock with fuel injection.
Started having problems when the bike got the Stage 2 Big Bore kit (95”).
Never seem to get enough fuel and bike would fall flat at about 75/80.
Converted to carburetor
Mukuni HSR 42 with a new RB Racing 2 into 1 exhaust.
Let’s just say that I’m am so pleased I’m beside myself “EVERY” time I ride now.
What a world of difference.
Money well spent and well worth the investment and conversion.

[RufusCapstick]

Good timing, I just ordered an EFI to carb conversion for my 06 Springer, can't wait.

[mrwhite]

This is a great video for those who still have the MM system. Wish it would have been around in 2004 when mine threw a scrap iron fit. On a trip to the Smoky Mountains. My 99 Ultra would randomly drop the rear cylinder. It would come and go. I can fix most things. But I had zero knowledge of the MM system at the time. Luckily, a technician at the Harley dealer in Ashville NC, helped me get it figured out. His name was Cliff. The guy knew his way around a Harley. He spent pretty much all day on it. But finally found a loose pin inside an injector. This was a bitch to find. But he got it done. Not long after that that TC-88 threw a fit when a cam bearing failed. But, luckily I had warranty on it and HD fixed it. My brother-in-law still has that Ultra with 84k on it.

[bigkyu]

I recently convert my 05 Delphi Deluxe over to HSR42. It couldn't be better, and feels great everytime I ride.

[xlc]

Swapped my 2001 FLHRCI out to carb with a namz harness, dynatek ignition and 40mm cv carb, also put a 95 big bore and a set of 211 cams in it. Still running strong 75k miles