Trope Talk: Strong Female Characters

Despite the increasing number of female protagonists in modern storytelling, it feels like a lot of them are somehow flatter than one might expect - playing to more of an archetype than a real, good character. Today, Red ponders the burning question - what's up with that?

Oh boy, the comments will be fun on this one!

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[libbeykirchner]

Also there's Kim possible who was able to be a strong female character while still being involved with girl things like the cheerleading squad and doing well in her studies.

[BrainlessMonke]

I appreciate the drawing of "the mother" character had the "gonna die" hairstyle

[skyhideaway]

Also, can we just talk about how Disney felt the need to elevate already strong female characters into "even stronger" by basically making their whole personality "badass female character"?

For example, Belle was already a well written character, a girl who is nerdy and quiet but also knows where to stand up for herself or the people she cares about (rejecting Gaston directly, yelling at the Beast and refusing to join him for dinner, showing no qualms about walking away from him when he tried to scare her, scolding him later for not controlling his temper). But the live action? Belle is not strong enough, she needs an occupation to be a good character, so she is the scientist now. They also shoved in a few sexist comments that were too on the nose and cringy, to say the least.

Jasmine? OG Jasmine was already strong. Again, she knew when to speak for herself and exactly what she wanted. She knew her own worth and she wanted a suitor who would accept her as a person, rather than for her title. But in the live action, Jasmine needs an ambition. She wants to be the sultan. And she positively insults all men (unlike in the animated version, where she only insults the over the top haughty princes) and has an entire song that talks about not allowing herself to be silenced when there were no instances of anyone trying to silence her. Again, "strong female character".

And quite possibly the most unnecessary change was to Mulan. OG Mulan was arguably the most physically powerful female character but the creators felt the need to change that as well. OG Mulan was a socially awkward girl who cares about her family, and disguises herself as a soldier for selfless reasons. She is not perfect; she has to learn everything from scratch, she fails time and time again while training, she has to work her way to the top. She also used her brains in most of the fights because physical strength in itself isn't enough, and that's what made her stand apart from the others. She got along with the male characters perfectly well, with no need of comparison or proving herself to be better. But the live action version? That Mulan is born with magical chi, she has trained from when she was a child, so she has to face no difficulties when joining the army. The only thing stopping her from proving herself is the society; otherwise, she is perfect. She is far from being a realistic character because young girls would look at her and think, "well, she's strong because she was born with it". Not to mention, the live action Mulan was as boring as a slice of bread. She had no character other than "female warrior", emphasis on the "female".

Basically, physical strength isn't everything. All of the OG princesses were strong in their own ways. Cinderella dealt with abuse and torment for years, but still kept her good morals and kindness. Snow White realized that running away from toxic situations is not cowardly. Tiana wanted to have an occupation to support herself and her mother, and worked hard for it. Ariel wanted to explore a new world that she didn't know, and be part of new experiences.

Also. Romance is not weak. A strong female character can still fall in love. And if they choose to stay single, it should not be because "she's too independent for a partner". You can be in a relationship and still be independent. If the relationship is built on mutual trust and understanding, no one is "too strong" for it. I understand that aroace characters can exist, but their motive for not having a partner should not be "oh, I don't need a man"; it should just be that they're happier with friends or family, and they don't really feel the need to be in a relationship.

[FoxHound-uthu]

The situation with Rey in my mind was just disappointing, Because I liked Rey's character in the force awakens, she's intelligent, confident and capable but the writers obviously wanted to get to the cool jedi powers as fast as they possibly can and in the end it didn't feel earned. Luke could barely grab a lightsaber with the force in the start of the second movie and lost the big fight after a pretty extensive time training. Rey is super powerful really quickly after lackluster training with Luke and off screen training with Leia, we never feel that progression or her struggles, her failures and its a tragedy because she could have been so much more.

[Ldarogeninga]

My personal problem with "Strong Female Character™" especially in a lot of modern movies that are trying really hard to be empowering toward women is it feels like writers see physical strength, and independence as the only kind of strength there is.
As much as people love to look at modern Disney princesses like Moana, Elsa, Merida, even Mulan and go "FINALY a strong female character!!" But never stop to look at a princess like Cinderella who was probably emotionally, one of the strongest princesses out there. She was abused as a child and into adulthood. She stood up for herself, she tried her best to stay positive, and all she wanted was a night out. But people look at the girl in the ball gown who probably can't pick up a sword and start fighting people and go "What a weak, horrible, and un-feminist character!!"
Strength comes in different ways, and there's nothing wrong with being feminine.

[fraidnaught]

"We know girls who are 6'6" and bench-press I-beams in their spare time."
Can...can you introduce me to them?

[yvainestelmack]

Something I always find funny with vampire shows is that the vampires will always freak out if any of the characters get a paper cut, yet the fact that about a quarter of the time the girls around them will be on their period is never addressed.

[rainmanslim]

Best strong female character in my opinion - Katara.

She's maternal and protective, cares deeply for those around her and she practices her skills in water bending and water healing whenever she has time to do so, so her prowess in combat is earned.

Yes she's sometimes relegated to a supporting role but here's the thing. She takes an ACTIVE supporting role. When one of the gaang get injured, she's hauling ass over to fix them up or get them to safety ASAP, not sitting on the sidelines waiting to find a way to keep herself busy.

She's undoubtedly feminine and at no point does she deny her femininity or try to hide it, she takes it in stride, but when action must be taken she leaps into it alongside everyone else.

[nonameless]

IDK, I think ATLA nailed every female character

[anisahs]

Besides ATLA, I think FullMetal Alchemist also nails on writing good, strong and likeable female characters

[elongatedmanforever]

Arcane is another good example, I especially love Jinx who ends up developing as a tragic villain.

[skyhideaway]

Basically, people's idea of "strong" is "masculine". A female character needs to be strong? Well, she's an awesome fighter, is arrogant or bossy, charges forth in any dangerous situation, is probably muscular or tall, is ruthless and straightforward, likes generally "masculine" stuff like sports or combat. This reduces feminine qualities like empathy, passion, kindness or emotion into being "weak". It reduces feminine interests such as makeup, frilly dresses, romance or hobbies such as gardening and sewing, into "shallow" or boring. This is why a lot of female characters are painted as "not like other girls" and a lot of teenage girls like to identify as such, because we are taught that feminine = weak or corny. Strength does not have anything to do with denying femininity, and that goes for both genders. Being girly isn't anything to be ashamed of and being tomboyish doesn't automatically make you better or more powerful.

[assassintwinat]

Just a quick side note/observation I just realized watching this: Raven from Teen Titans fits none of those five generic types mentioned in the beginning. Starfire fits like 3 of them, but Raven isn't significantly caring or motherly, she's certainly no meek little girl in need of a white knight, she's incredibly powerful and stoic but she's no hardened veteran, Starfire is comparatively and traditionally the more attractive one, and while Raven's certainly attractive in her own way, her body and face are rarely if ever shown at the same time(when her cloak is away from her body her hood covers her face/when her hood is down her cloak is over her body) and obviously she isn't silly or goofy. Yet she's still not only a valued and beloved member of the team, she's a loved and adored female character.

[TheEtherny]

I think one female character done right was Disney's Esmeralda, her beauty is actually part of the story, it's the reason everyone falls for her, even Frollo who doesn't even know her, she's always helping anyone who needs her and she's pretty resourceful, the only time she's the damsel in distress seems logical after all that it took to catch her and she wasn't even in distress since she stood brave choosing to be burnt alive instead of surrendering to Frollo, in the end she wasn't the main character's love interest but inspiration instead to reach his true potential and stand up to Frollo.

[jonathanflanagan]

The problem nowadays when people try to write 'strong female characters' is that they so often immediately just slap all of the basic traits of toxic masculinity on said characters and call it a day.

Also I like the Alinua cameo.

[bananasauz]

Oddly enough, I have a much easier time writing females. Though I suspect me being the only brother to my five sisters growing up might have influenced things a tiny bit.

[mrbateman]

"you need to write from real life to be a better writer"
Me an introvert: say sike right now

[aa-txth]

Writing (interesting) gurls is hard.

Writing (interesting) bois is hard.

Writing interesting people is hard.

Interesting writing is hard.

Crap writing is easy.

[OnlyRoke]

My issue with Rey is that her character begins and ends with her being kinda curious and a tiny bit of an orphan. Like, beyond that she doesn't really have any remarkable traits. She's not even a whiney bitch like Luke was. She's just kinda.. morally incorruptible and she picks up on things real quick and she's awesome at them from basically the get go.

How cool would it have been if Rey's upbringing as a literal scavenger orphan on a desert planet had any major ramifications for her? Maybe she's inherently distrustful of others, because she had to fight to make it through her early years. Maybe she'd be prone to falling into violence and anger, because she feels neglected by society. Or maybe she is even cooler than we think and she's a highly crafty, sly and cunning individual, who could've sided WITH Kylo after the second movie, but not out of dumb shit like teen love or loyalty, but because she wants to subtly manipulate the most crazy and powerful dude in the universe to do good shit, to lead a good "new empire", only to realize that the empire would always be bad and sycophants like Hux would always try to snipe for the spot of "oppressive evil strongman leader", so she and a converted Kylo would work against that in the third movie. Heck, she could've even kept her relation to Palpatine as a background info we learn late into the third movie (without Palpatine coming back....) and we could've had some little "so that's where she gets her craftiness from.. she's a Palpatine, but a good one, who had friends that grounded her morality"

But.. Disney really didn't do anything with Rey after Force Awakens. She's a kind of bubbly, curious young girl who gets excited to see the big wide universe and after that she's .. doing nothing aside from training, stoically refusing every evil temptation without any real effort and she has some weird lover's quarrel with Kylo, while being absurdly good at fighting where she can basically defeat Zombie Palpatine, just because the plot demands that "she is all the Jedi".

[lancerapelye]

I really like Mirabelle, and the family throughout Disney's Encanto. They're written well and super fun to watch!