Trope Talk: Paragons

They're good! They're inspiring! They'll help the helpless just because! They're staggeringly out of place in modern nihilistic grimdark! Today we talk paragons - the definitions, the difficulties, and the potential for cruel, cruel character flaws.

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[Shadowghost]

"I'm just trying to make a better world and the world would be better without you in it." Possibly the most chilling paragon phrase there is.

[gunjfur]

A paragon and a "villain who legitimately thinks he's doing the right thing" would probably have an interesting interaction.

[krazypipe]

"Hey, I think I finally figured out why it's not an Avengers movie."


Yea, thanks for finally explaining that. I always thought it was a marketing ploy before watching your video.

[DeHerg]

What I would like to sometimes see:
Ally/Villain: Why are you doing all this?
Hero:(smiles a bit sheepishly/embarrassed) You know that warm and fluffy feeling you get, when you know you helped someone?
Ally/Villain: Really? *That's it?*
Hero:(shrugs shoulders) Yes, pretty much. I just like helping people.


Altruism can be its own emotional reward and doesn't always need lengthy philosophical justifications as your raison d'etre.

[pRahvi]

7:12 "Even Batman is more of a team player than he is."
Ouch!

[endermage]

Now I'm curious about the Accidental Paragon:
- Tries to do Evil
- Is absolutely not the good guy
- Somehow ends up doing the right thing anyway
- Inspires everyone else

Edit: I should clarify a couple extra things
- Never has a redemption arc
- Does not want to do good at any point
- Is not necessarily the protagonist or antagonist
- If they are aware that they did good they would certainly be upset about it

Edit Edit: Dr. Doofenshmirtz has been suggested to death already, thank you very much

[KarlKristofferJohnsson]

I think it's interesting that people often call purely good paragon heroes "unrealistic". I don't think that's the case. There are some people who actually are like that.

[SigmaSyndicate]

Here's an interesting one people don't often think about: Saitama from One-Punch Man.

Now he's not the most moral man in the universe; far from it. He's actually very jaded and pretty cynical by Season One Episode One, and doesn't really change from arc to arc. While he does make new friends and become more involved in the world, he's treated more like a side character. Everyone else is the protagonist in their own story, only for Saitama to come in, wipe the floor with them, and realize something about themselves.


Genos, Bang, Fubuki, King, Suiryu, Garou. All of these people and more come into contact with Saitama, and realize just how little power they have in the grand scheme of the world. It makes them completely re-examine what their priorities are and how they should interact with the world. Saitama doesn't really change, but the people around him do. He's not a perfect person, but that's kind of the point. He's NOT the heroic ideal, but he still saves people anyway. He could rule the world if he wanted, but he just would rather eat some good food and play some video games. He's a simple man, in a world where people overcomplicate absolutely everything.

[theredrighthandproductions]

"It's alright now! Why? Because I am here!" ~All Might

[jinglesbejankin]

This is especially funny to me. I used to make my own comics. Did the art, the dialogue, the writing, everything. One of my favorite characters to write was literally named Paragon, and that's exactly who and what he was. He had his troubles, but they often relied on the fact that he was a textbook cape and tights hero. He was such a boy scout that half the time I had to listen to the Mighty Mouse theme song to write him correctly.

Comes in with a big smile, does a pose and gives a cheesy line, then does his best to save the day. He was the kind of guy who volunteered in homeless shelters. Helped the elderly cross the street or move things. Got cats out of trees. Caught and returned runaway balloons. Etc. He wasn't the most powerful hero in my comics. But he was up there.

I found that more often than not the true conflicts lied in his personality. The final issue I wrote him in involved his greatest conflict, one he handled very well. He had been in a fight with an exceptionally durable villain. To which he used all of his power to defeat and promptly nuked the villain. Every house around him for a block radius was flattened. Three block radius, the windows melted and the houses were burned. Five block radius the windows shattered and plant life was negatively affected.

Paragon didn't expect this as he had never used this much power at once. So when the police showed up he turned himself in for the murder of the villain and the possible deaths of others and mass destruction of property. During his own trial, he demanded the maximum sentence for his crime. I believe the line was "If I'm allowed to walk free. What message does that send to the children of America? That with enough power and prestige one can get away with anything? No... Your honor give me the maximum sentence, I plead guilty to all charges."

[donnamitsuki]

Red: **describes Captain America and his Paragon nature**
Me: **finally understands why my best friend hates him so damn much**

[Hallows]

Katniss Everdeen is a great example of a flawed paragon: Her moral compass never waivers and she remains uncorrupted by the forces around her. Yet her inflexibility often prevents her from understanding the bigger picture, and to quote Peeta’s refrain, “She has no idea the effect she has on people.”

[bizarreFantasist]

"Captain Goddamn America" is literally one of the best lines I've ever heard.

[stilltmg]

5:18 - Honestly, I consider Dick Grayson/Nightwing I to be a much stronger classical paragon figure, if only for his incredible outreach. Any villain dumb enough to even lay a scratch on him will risk becoming a punching bag from practically every single hero organization that Dick had even a tenuous connection to. But you have a point with bringing Batman into this, as It's clear that he got this trait from him.

[christopherjent]

My weakness: when the paragon suffers a great loss, then goes on a morally gray rampage, but then just before they cross the line, the lancer stops them and gives the "you saved me from a dark place, let me save you" speach.

[Stormkrow]

1:55 what’s ironic about this is that it’s specifically stated in the DCAU that Batman was the first hero and that Superman came after him, with Martha Kent referring to him as “That Nut in Gotham City” in the first couple of episodes

[hpcriticall]

I feel like a "Captain Goddamned America" shirt drawn by Red would be something I'd love in my life.

[firstnamelastname]

I listen to these trope talks like normal people listen to music

[xxweirdofromspacexx]

I just realized one of the the books in the bookcase is called

Library
Making
For
Dummies

[andrewgreenwood]

it makes me sad when people dislike characters who are just good