Why We Make Others Feel Bad: Understanding Projective Identification

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How do we invisibly transfer our emotions to others, and what magic lies in revealing this unseen dance?

Projective identification is like unconsciously tossing our feelings into someone else, a behavior first noticed in babies with their moms. It's an invisible way we influence others based on our buried issues, avoiding dealing with our tough emotions by making others express them for us. Facing up to this pattern can help us understand ourselves better and grow. Often, this cycle kicks off with blaming others, triggering a domino effect that reveals deeper, hidden struggles within us.

Prepare to discover…Melanie Klein's pivotal role in defining projective identification through her studies on infants and maternal interactions; when its relevant to personal dynamics and psychoanalysis; how projective identification works as a defense mechanism; what projective identification involves, its mechanisms, and its manifestations in daily relationships and therapy; where projective identification occurs, from personal to clinical contexts, highlighting its broad applicability; whether projective identification is conscious or unconscious; which theoretical perspectives and analysts contributed to the understanding of projective identification; why projective identification is significant in understanding human behavior, particularly in emotional communication, relationship dynamics, and therapeutic interventions…and so much more.

TO GO RIGHT TO THE DREAM: 01:12:35

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[heatherwall]

We are ALL looking for the love we lacked in childhood. 🙏💙

[kimberlyhelbing]

The cure for the pain is in the pain. -Rumi

[da]

I always feel like I’m sitting down listening to three dear friends of the spirit when I hear the wisdom intricately woven in each and every episode of This Jungian Life. Bravo to all three of you!!

[SusanaXpeaceu]

This is what my family has done to me. Decades and Decades of ''you're sensitive''. ''You're paranoid''. My mother is the one who can accept no feedback at all. My father spent time in a psychiatric hospital with paranoid delusions and it was only in my forties that I thought, no, wait, stop this. Stop putting this onto me anytime I TRY to question your narratives! So when I got this and asked for change, I was shut down, given the cold shoulder, labelled angry, aggressive, detached from reality, insane, I give up. The ONLY way to be included in the family is to accept that I am this angry sensitive paranoid version of myself that allows my parents to feel superior (and disguise their own blindspots)_

[sunbeam]

" She's not really doing anything. The unconscious is doing it. She's really not aware" thank you. So important to note. The unconscious is non personal. Missing that point makes for so much suffering and blame.

[lisbethbird]

Interesting Jung's term 'participation mystique', to me, because it did seem like "a spell", very mysterious.
I was friends with a person who compulsively and repetitively (and at least initially, unconsciously) acted to annoy, anger, and steal any sense of presence, balance, well being, or contentment (or even safety) I may have in the moment. Eventually, I saw this more and more clearly, after being driven to actual trauma responses a few times. ( Once a ran away out of my own house into a raging storm. Another occasion I froze to the point of dissociation - couldn't move or think.) I attempted many times to talk about this dynamic, and my attempts were always dismissed and often ridiculed or made into a joke. Eventually, fortunately temporarily, I hated my former friend. Then I also hated myself for feeling that way.
While I do think that the behaviors were initiated impulsively(compulsively?) and unconsciously, there would sometimes be a point at which I could clearly see that my friend was feeling gratification, and a sense of power and superiority. That calmness would appear ( you could even say smugness) and she would sometimes seem to *consciously*, *deliberately* continue the provocations because my reactions and feelings gave her pleasure and a sense of being the person in control.
As clinicians, what do you see as being "under" this repetition complulsion? I have wondered whether she hated herself because of how, for a time, I ended up hating her. That's a very unusual emotion for me...seeming to be from the outside, like a spell cast. Or maybe she hated me, because of how I also ended up hating myself. Could it be both?

But do you think that the emotions being projected could also include my friend's *lack* of what she needed to take away from me, namely, balance, presence, contentment, and safety? i.e. " If I can't manage to feel these, you're not allowed to either. " (I guess that would be a type of envy?)

[SuzaWoof]

I've come to learn that some people run on a completely different operating system, where nothing is compatible with my own programming. There might be workarounds, but in the end it's always way too much work to get what should be the simplest of tasks done.

[MrZakatista]

I was probably in 45 yo and had been in analysis for a couple of years when I began noticing this behavior. It really was devastating not only to see it happening, but also to realize that it had always been a feature of every relationship.

[Emy]

My goodness, the damage inflicted on children is deep just by words. It's no wonder we are seeing so many children attacking their classmates, and their teachers.

[kathleenb]

This episode is so important. Learning to not be seduced into living someone else's shadow is going to save me. I have been living this for 15 years. I had no idea. Such a big piece of knowledge for me.

[pada]

I have often felt like, when we are overwhelmed and clueless how to act in a situation, we put someone else in this situation and try to learn from THEIR example if they can come up with better ideas.
we look for blueprints on what we could do next time we are in that situation
and/or we look to finally relive the old traumatic situation from the past in a way that ends well and with healing.

so we turn to a person we trust and we feel is strong, and we "ask" them, on a subconscious level, to re-enact the old story so we can a, learn a new attitude and strategy (i.e. answer the questions, get closure on: what COULD i have done, back then? and what CAN i do should a situation like this come up again?) and b, re-live the trauma but with a positive ending, we get the understanding, the positive constructive empathy, we get the consolation, we get the hug, that our inner child still wants. so we hope for a different outcome, but we cannot do anything about it other than bringing the exact dynamic up in max intensity, and hope and pray that one day someone will come up with a better idea about how to react, than what we know so far.

it's the first thought i have when a child comes home from kindergarden and starts throwing harsh words around or misbehaving in specific ways. i always picture the child experiencing or witnessing this behavior and being at a loss, about how to deal with it. so they "bring the sample home" and see what the peer group or the adults do with it.

does this make sense to anyone? is it a "thing"?

[Roswell]

This is SO COMMON!! I grew up with Narcissists so they obviously did this to maintain their narrative. Then I got out into the world and expected sanity in comparison, I was shocked! I'm neurodivergent and people are so unpredictable and seem to target me a lot!! It's hard doing the work and living in reality, often alone

[sunbeam]

Projections : how our interactions with others is internalized.
Thank you. I love it when a discussion starts with an accepted definition for the topic in question.

[ArchBrethren]

@53:36 Lisa hits it on the head here. I don't want this to go unnoticed. For me, I'm experiencing a coworker that's supposed to be training me and he's projecting this sense of inferiority or incompetence. I too have had the thought of meeting that person on that level, but I had to think about why someone would be projecting these strong feelings in such a way. I found myself thinking about what sort of compassion this person isn't showing their self (inferiority) and how I could show them that compassion even if they will not afford it to themself. If I ever found myself behaving as they are, what sort of compassion would I hope someone would show me? In my mind, this is the christ-like attitude. The cure to the internal civil war that Jung talked about when he addressed the clergymen long ago. Thank you, Lisa.

[pruettstephen]

As Joseph said that it is gold to realize what one has been doing but it's also deeply sad to realize that one has spent a lifetime doing the same thing and that it is so deeply crystalized. It can leave one not knowing how to navigate life even if that person's relationship dynamic has been deeply flawed. I have a sign on the exit door to my apartment that reads" withdraw your projections keep your mouth shut."

[saycog]

If I make it someone else’s fault I get to be a little child for longer.

[danielaoyarzun]

Deb's interpretations on dreams are always on point and feel so right. I really admire how incisive her analyses of dreams are.

[sd---sd]

Really insightful talk here. I am certain from my own direct experience that projective identification on the deepest level directly correlates to soul murder. Would love to hear you guys discuss this.

[loriconner]

Years ago, while having some medical issues, I started seeing a therapist . After a couple of months she told me " we are our past experiences". I never saw her again. To this day, I have no idea what she was trying to put on me since she knew some terrible experiences I had suffered as a child. If anyone can add some insight, please explain, since it's obviously still in my thoughts.

[BEEaTREE]

At what point are we allowed to accept that, while some of us are willing as well as interested as well as more capable of self-healing, self-awareness and self-empowerment, others may simply not have a) the time b) the capability c) the desire for this inner change? And if this is indeed true, is it not also true that we need to find room for compassion? In other words, be where you are on your inner journey (emotionally and psychologically) but don't expect others to be where you are or to even want to embark on a healing journey ...

This is the strongest test of self-realization, I feel. Where our progress, our inner changes, our accountability for who we are, our inner growth CAN continue despite being around people who aren't there ... or may never wish to be...