Mike Winger's Terrible Argument on Why the Church Fathers are NOT Church Fathers #catholic

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[cactoidjim]

Oooh...so they *did* inherit ministries, they weren't just starting their own after reading the Scriptures?

[capella]

I mean he’s not wrong. He’s not saying we should completely disregard all church fathers. It’s just important there are guys like Barnabas, who worked directly with apostle Paul, and then there’s the “fathers” several hundred years later. Mikes am Intelligent guy, I’m sure he has more nuances than I see in this little clip.

[FullMetalThomist]

Even if he was right (which he’s not) and there were what we’d call “Fathers” in the 8th century, it would still predate the theology of the Reformation by another 6 centuries and his Evangelical theology by another 3 or 4 centuries. How does he not see this argument completely wrecks his own position?

[Psychosis]

Number one, you cut them off. Number two, his argument isn’t garbage, nor is it the best he could possibly be. Number three, what he saying, has validity to it, and his ultimate point being, that scripture is what was passed down, affirmed, and regarded to.

[irishandscottish]

So Mike in 2023 AD thinks he knows better than the church fathers in 650 AD or 750 AD 😂

[DiabloMet]

Most of these comments are a result from this clip being taken completely out of context, i highly encourage people to watch his full series on catholicism

[EdwardGraveline]

Ignatius of Antioch is the real church father who John the Apostle taught- that Protestants fear the most

[hermeticascetic]

People aren't allowed to have extra insight regarding the gospel in the 8th century because a man in the 21st century said so

[chad_hominem]

why do prots never apply their same rubric equally to themselves? Cause if you grant his argument, he's refuted himself.

[jakegoldberg]

I like how this video makes fun of Mike winger, yet he is correct. "They didn't start the church, and they didn't plant the church." Preach it Mike!

Don't idolize church fathers.

[jtbball]

I’m with him. Early church leaders have an authority in interpreting scripture because they were taught by Jesus and the apostles.

Hundreds of years later though? At that point, church leaders don’t get to find new teachings because they are “implied” and never be critically examined because “only they can interpret scripture.”

Hold true to the teachings of early church fathers like the real presence and infant baptism. To say that a guy can come up with a new “implied” teaching hundreds of years later and that it is now on par with clearly written scriptural teachings and nobody is allowed to point out its error is precisely how you open yourself to false teachings.

[natescorner]

And what was wrong with what Mike Winger said exactly? Laugh all you want but you provided no rebuttal. You just called it ridiculous.

[MilitantfortheImmaculata]

This is why invincible ignorance is not an excuse for some.

[JesusRodriguez-guwv]

It seems legitimate. If anything they are not as close to the apostles as they claim. Like 700 years after so they are not close to the apostles like people would like to think. And even if they were they are not infallable

[kennethmaki]

Church Fathers? Why do you call them Fathers when Jesus clearly said we should not label anyone else our "Father" But God in spiritual sence!

[willtheperson]

By Mike's definition for his opposition to the Father's, he rejects St Athanasius, despite his canon of the NT being the one that ALL Christians have

So, it's ironic to say the least

[rustyshackelford]

Mormons and JWs make the same arguments

[danib]

Why did Roman Catholics push celibacy??? That is so so SO unbiblical!

[YuriBoechat-efts]

Someone in the 8th century cannot be a father of the Church but from the 16th century onwards, people I like can found "churches", develop doctrine, revise orthodoxy to their own opinion... I get it!

[runenorderhaug]

I think the best, most optimistic way to take this is that it is important to clarify what period church fathers you are talking about when you are using arguements around the church father. I dont think that is what Mike really meant, but that is at least something we can learn from