Audiences Hate Bad Writing, Not Strong Women

Hollywood - and Disney in particular - have a recent trend of propping up female heroines who just aren't that interesting of characters. They have shallow character arcs, are largely interested in self-actualization, and often lack any likeable traits. There are, however, examples of strong female characters such as Vi and Rita Vertaski from within the last decade that run contrary to this trend, and their positive acceptance is proof positive that audiences do not dislike strong women - just bad writing.

Enlist in the Grand Army of the Republic:

[nicholas_obert]

"Don't make a great female character, make a great character that happens to be female"
-some wise person

[PseudoNym]

The worst part is when they get called out for bad writing they pull the sexism card to cope for their lack of skill

[StAngerNo]

The problem I have with a lot of these characters is, that they are just so unlikable. They are annyoing, arogant, narcistic, all traits that you rather see in villian - because they make a character unlikeable. The writers use the traits they see in "toxic masculinity", but somehow think that a strong character has to have them in order to be strong, thereby completely sabotaging their own agenda.

[johnaverill]

Theres a quote by a woman on tumblr i believe where she says something along the lines of "if i have to act meek and inferior for you to feel like a strong man, then you arent a strong man." I think that also applies to strong female characters in shows; "if your female character has to have incompetent men around her to highlight her competence, she isnt a competent character."

[SnowWhite]

As a woman, it doesn’t feel empowering or inspiring. It feels patronizing and pitying. They need to stop doing this

[grahamthomas]

“Write characters to tell a story not prove a point” Great line!

[lilq]

As a young girl the animated Mulan was one of my favorites. I would cry when she snuck away with her fathers armor, I was mesmerized by her stubbornness and bravery. I genuinely was a bit scared of the movie because of the war scenes and how creepy they made the villains. Her internal and external conflict was so prevalent and moving to me even as a child. I have not seen the new one, but hearing it as you have described I’m so mad. Girls and women these days are being so robbed of characters with clear personalities and flaws. Things that create depth, drama, and character development. I for years have felt the forcedness of “strong female leads” in media and wondered when and WHY it has shifted this way. WHY can these people not write a character for a woman or girl that would actually exist in real life? They all feel flat, boring, and blindly confident. Besides this, they have no GENUINE personality flaws or traits that let you connect as a watcher. Mulan in the animation was clumsy, late, lacked the ability to conform to stereotypical feminine ideals (the beginning), didn’t fully respect authority, impulsive, stubborn, etc. All of this played such a major role in her character development and made her so iconic. The true lack of depth to these female leads is what really makes me and everyone else mad. We would LOVE to see genuinely well written characters. The struggle is what makes the success feel so good. It genuinely feels like we are being mocked in the media these days and like women are perceived as lacking emotional depth and the ability to intellectually contribute to solving conflict. Stop bubble wrapping the women and we’ll stop hating it.

[DLCguy]

Another problem with Hollywood's extensive usage of this trope is that it inadvertently suggests that traditionally female roles are somehow lesser, and that to be a strong female character you must reject it entirely. Traditionally female roles require just as difficult as traditionally male roles, I think a character that showcases strength in this role is Nani from Lilo and Stitch.

[GS-mdex]

good ol' hollywood thinking that a strong woman needs to be more like a man, instead of making a real character

EDIT: This comment was written at like 2 am in a few seconds, and I have notifs muted so I didn't see all the replies. To clear up confusion, I do mean man as specifically the self absorbed toxic masculine stereotype that is still common in media. A blending of traditional femininity and masculinity is needed for a truly good male or female character, and no gender is bound to a single set of values or way of life.

[DrShiba-jgme]

"Ya'll hate on Rey just because she's a strong woman"
Meanwhile Ahsoka, Leia and Padme are some of the most beloved and iconic characters in Star Wars history

[wzkqiye]

A better comparison scene for the bullying is Harry Potter. His mistreatment at the hands of the Dursleys is explained very quickly – they value normalcy, which Harry is decidedly not. He is bullied by his relatives and, as a result of their deception, pretty much everyone around him considers him the problem and so they mistreat him too.

Not only is the treatment given a reasoning, we later find out the reasoning is nuanced and find out even later just how much deeper it went than we were initially led to believe… to the point that there were scenes relating to the mistreatment that were actually impactful and surprising all the way until the final movie/book.

It goes even further in that it was a narrow reflection of a broader issue in the world at large. On that broader scale it was a large factor in Grindelwald’s motives which ultimately led to WW2.

What seemed like a simple thing was actually a major plot point… whereas RoP? “Please like our Mary Sue because she endured some inexplicable childish bullying”

[professionalamateur]

I was literally just thinking how the mom from A Quiet Place is a great example of a strong female protagonist right before you mentioned her at the end of the video!

[borgthepig]

Remember folks: the gender of the character does not matter, as long as it is good writing.

[Anupamprime]

I like how no one hated Gamora...
Despite she being the 2nd strongest Physically and strongest In Overall Combat....
Because she was written perfectly in the guardians of the galaxy franchise..

[hibikuokudan]

As a woman, yes.
We had so many strong female characters before the "strong female character" archetype became a thing.
Ripley in Alien was strong. The women in Lord of the rings were strong. The classic Disney princesses and leading ladies were also strong.
They may not have all had physical strength, but they used their skills to overcome flaws and problems, to survive terrifying situations, to support the other heroes, to help save the day.
They were all inspiring in their own ways, and the way they use their strengths without needing to sacrifice being feminine was inspiring.

It teaches little girls that you don't have to be masculine to be strong.

[NinjaKoalaAUTW]

I clearly remembered I said to myself " Black Widow is so cool, she is my favourite character now". Nowadays, Disney is shoving the idea of FEMALE characters are super strong and just to be themselves and everything will be fine. There is no character arc, they are just too strong plus all male character are dumb shxt

[carlossevilla]

I think the irony of the "sexism" card is that they are ultimately defending writers not respecting women enough to put real effort into their characters and arcs

[sonicstar]

A man named Clifton Duncan once said;

"Audiences don't hate diverse characters. What they hate is being slammed as bigots for rejecting bad work from pretentious, unskilled activists posing as writers. If the demography of your characters becomes more important than the story, your story will probably suck."

[PhilRose]

"Create characters to tell a story, not to prove a point."

The entire video summed up perfectly.

[redmessenger]

Kate in the Hawkeye show gave me hope for the future of Marvel… really most of their straight to Disney+ shows did. I can’t understand why the shows and movies with the most advertising are the worst, and the most looked over and amazing ones are forgotten, or advertised too late.