Air Sim is Broken Right Now at Top Tier - War Thunder

[zehi]

i'd fly in sim more often if we had maps like dcs, just overall bigger, more airfields on different parts of the map( not just lined up next to each other ) and if there was more shit to do than to just kill each other, more convoys, anti ship missiles, carrier exclusive maps with no airfield etc., if gaijin wants sim to stay alive, they need to make bigger maps with more objectives, i feel like these old maps just aren't built for fox3's, they're built for coldwar era jets, and also the issue of the balancing, they need to just make flight models accurate, america in real life was always better at bvr, but not in dogfights, the missiles that america has will always outrange ussr ones except if they make an even bigger timegap, but russian flankers should be beating american jets in dogfights, and they just arent flying like they should be

[bubyboo]

they need to add a pve sim mode, with more objectives, for example destroying radars, SAM sites, dynamic frontlines with infantry, etc. And 2v2 3v3 and 5v5 PVP

[GRNbull]

Mega-larp masterpost inbound:I think a lot of the problems with the asymmetric matchmaking would be remedied if the game modes were asymmetric inherently. A bunch of Su-27s and MiG-29s, even with fox-1s, would be able to decently contend with F-15Cs and F-16Cs if they were operating over friendly ground for THEM but for NATO its a sprawling IADS of GCI radars and SAM sites. In a 2v2, two F-15Cs vs two Su-27SMs on a 200x200km map over neutral territory, unless the Eagle pilots are near braindead they should realistically
1) get the first shot off
2) never be seriously put on the defensive.

BUT if that same exchange happened over idk Israeli-Syrian border while two F-15Cs were escorting some F-16As on a strike mission, the F-15s would be at the mercy of Su-27 pilots who have assets at their disposal that ARENT radar sets powered by some hamster wheels and vacuum tubes. (exaggeration). Of course there should be improvements to the typical sim game mode BUT a broader, slower paced and more immersive game mode that plays out more like a persistent campaign than a 2.5 hour match, would be nice as well.

Also: Should we get larger maps (PLEASE) the MiG-31BM would easily close the BVR gap. It's radar vastly out ranges the F-15 and F-16 and carries some of the better missiles WITHOUT having to make a colossal and rushed leap to the Su-35 with its AESA radar. MiG-31 cant dogfight for shit but from an avionics/BVR standpoint it should be basically an F-14B with better missiles

[blessthismessss]

protip for bypassing slow Su-27/MiG-29 radar scan: swap to IRST HMD and lock your bandit up, usually IRST HMD will pick any afterburning jet out beyond the 10km that PD HMD can reach, and additionally IRST locks seem to acquire much faster and more stable than PD locks in any HMD/ACM mode, assuming theres no flaring. once you have the lock, swap to radar and you basically achieve all that in less than the 8 seconds it takes to scan normally, if you can get used to it.
sometimes this enables me to lock afterburning twin engine fighters at up to *25km* frontal aspect with the IRST HMD, which you can then hand off to your radar. this means sometimes you can even outrange the NATO standard 18km ACM mode

[ItzCPU_]

I am watching this whilst cryogenically frozen.

[DEFYN]

aktuly blue side DESERVES to bully the skillless RED players after they had the MOST OP MISSILE ever for

[therealmp]

For what it's worth, my understanding is that the weird waffle fins the R-77 has aren't modelled correctly. They are supposed to help the missile retain energy in turns better than normal missiles, which of course doesn't help with range but it would at least make it so R-77s would stop missing what seem like guaranteed kills, since right now it's very easy for someone to dodge them without even realizing it

[camaradeKC]

btw for the red sides enjoyer just pick a map with french on ur side so you will have the mica help. i dont think that sim will die since its already dead compared to his past glory the rp u win are way too low to be attracting

[pbluma]

I'm an old guard but I only recently got to top tier and I jumped most rank 6-7 jets with the Mig 21s... This era was alright, but then the Mig 29 and SU27 felt like playing with a handicap. But now I see this wasn't all just in my head.

[Dank-o-Dave]

All well made points, I'm sure Toast will appreciate that he's not a sweat lord lol.

[erice.]

I really wonder why no one even mentions that they changed the system so planes do not render over 8km range... It should be called Beyond visual render... And that just sucks. I can't most of the time find enemies visually....

[spray]

Flanker could really use a flight model buff so you're not completely reliant on your R-73s. At this point I think the addition of the R-77-1 may also be warranted. As for the Flankers radar, as far as I am aware, the issues with the radar scan speeds are accurate. This would only be fixed with an SM3 or a later flanker like the Su-30/Su-35.
R-77-1 is an equivalent to the AMRAAM C5. A flight model buff would give red side more cards to play then a missile which may not help at all due to the bad radar.

[SgtWallce]

Amongst the big four (WT, IL2, DCS, BMS), WT's greatest strength is that it is the most easily accessible combat flight "sim". Your proposal is just treating the symptoms, and would just be another link in the leapfrog arms race of what the current meta is. The pressing issue is that Sim EC is a neglected gamemode, it isn't the cashcow that ARB is. We're missing significant elements that a 4th gen air combat environment would have. We need TDL (EWR and AWACS implemented), IADS, SEAD & DEAD. Many are frustrated with how simplistic WT's gamemodes are now. Warthunder Sim EC is a bare bones air quake game mode now. Those with HOTAS simpits and the means are transitioning to DCS and IL2, as are those in DCS to a higher fidelity digital "warfare" simulator known as BMS. So it goes.

[KaguyasBeat]

Slight correction: The T's and ET's do have IRCCM the same as the R-73's, but it's not nearly as good. It's sight shrinks from 1.75 to 1.33 degrees so it's not too major a change. Rear aspect it's basically impossible to flare so that's generally the best use scenario for it if the opponent is aware of you and flaring, but other than that particular instance yea it's very easily flared. I've had an F-15 flare it when it was 1km away from impact just yesterday.
Idk if the R-77-1 would be much better as things stand based on datamines of it. It would be an improvement but still likely outranged by the AMRAAM A. R-27EA might be too much for now in terms of how this game plays and where it currently stands.

[mogureklame]

My experience on red team is mostly getting hit by aim 120 while i am taking off the runway

[Nigh-T]

I have actually had a lot of fun with the Mirage in SIM if you can sneak up on people the MICA at 10km outperforms everything

[clankplusm]

one small note from sonmething you said towards the start: R27ET actually does have IRCCM, iirc it's similar but somewhat inferior to the R73, meaning rear aspect ET shots are pretty hard to flare, especially what with many of your targets right now being ultrahot F15Cs. I've seen ETs get flared at 7 km rear aspect and hit

Asides that I concur with this opinion from my own findings, especially that it's not JUST the missile difference, having grinded the Su27SM and F15J Kai this patch already (the latter by using the stock F16AJ I never used and working through that towards spade + finishing my F15J spade) fighting REDFOR every time with the JASDF planes (the US players are objectively worse on average than anyone playing redfor rn), the SM has the hands needed, but what REALLY makes things rough are the avionics differences like the radar and the usability of things. The SM however gets the one pro of getting ETs pretty quickly I guess, so it's not waiting for the ARH missile to be at peak performance.

**That said, one of the other big things turning redfor away** (and this is a theory as I grinded the SM in RB then spaded it through Sim), has to do with the trees themselves, **Not the F15C and Su-27SM inherently (Though because of extensions of the same issues)**: If you look at the BLUFOR side of things, most players have a F16C at the start of this patch, and want the F15C/AV-8B+, this means they have to knock out a ~20k RP modification to get the 120's onto their F16C, a very competent platform with, notably a range/ID RWR and a perfectly good Radar. This allows that player to play with that until they get their MSIP/ Harrier. Alternately, a few will play the F-15A, which has a disadvantage to the SM as no ARH, but we'll return to that later.
On the REDFOR side, bar retreating to another bracket in rank 7 like <11.7 (Which really is <11.3 for Russia, not to mention the insult of the MiG-23 being nerfed this patch), they have a similar situation where they have a light fighter that was given ARH (R77), the MiG-29SMT... Which, objectively is worse than the F15C similarly to the Su27SM and F15C situation, but even worse as the SMT has dogshit BFM performance, and yet again the shit MiG-29 Radar. It's objectively a bad experience out of the gate. Now, the REDFOR players can elect to use the Su27 (base variant), and this is more common inherently since it's the predecessor of the SM, which seems great. It has actually acceptable BFM (esp for r73), a heavy missile load (10 instead of 6) allowing a mix of ER and ET... But the happy times end there, as not ONLY does the Su27 share this garbage ass radar, the Su27 also has a critical flaw in the new meta: It's RWR. The Su-27's RWR (and this extends to the Yak141 and base MiG-29) Is frankly the absolute barest level of acceptability before it would result in straight up BR decreases for RWR alone. Seriously, this RWR as compared to pretty much all NATO planes in this bracket, and the 29SMT / 27SM, completely lacks ID and lacks signal strength, and isn't even directional enough to place yourself in a Notch properly. this is a BIG DEAL now with the fact that it means you cannot ID ARH missiles effectively from normal tracking radars, cannot notch them easily without a RWR that easily lets you 3-9 line the missile, or determine how close they are to you effectively (which helps greatly with notch/cold/kinematic decisionmaking for missile defeat, as well as CM conservation and ability to keep track of targets through rolls / not become confused in a multi target scenario). Remember how I said the 15A doesn't have as much of an issue? This is why I say that. Genuinely I feel like my 15J (albeit spaded) was better than the Su-27SM when the latter still only had R-27ET's. This all has a snowball effect where people see diffuclties with the flanker and R77 before they even get the SM, and call off the grind, heavily reducing player retention on REDFOR through the grind

**TL;DR:** Not only is Su-27SM worse than F15C, The MiG-29SMT is objectively far worse than the F16C, the Su-27 is now extremely rough compared to the F-15A, and the Yak-141 is barely acceptable but not really (Why couldnt it have R77 at least, I get why not R73 even if it'd be realistic, though at elast it's RWR is proper directional ig?), people not only don't want to play the Su-27SM, they don't even want to *grind it.* At least, this is a theory, as I don't have a 29SMT and skipped the sim grind through patch day ARB shenanigans.

[cruzreu]

Great vid, for me the real killer is just how slow the radar is in picking up targets. You can play around the missile having poor range, but not a radar that refuses to pick up targets. As far as i can see the NATO planes would still be greatly superior to the 27SM even if the latter recieved the R-77-1

[ВячеславФролов-дя]

I'd love to see some sort of awacs/ewr in sim battles

[jordancourse]

Gratz on 3k subs 🎉.

Asa flanker main, 100% agreed. Imagine if every blue team main was actually a good pilot and knew what they were doing, red side wouldn’t stand a chance at all. A lot of sim players use the argument “well you have 15+ kills in the flanker so clearly the plane must be OP”. 85% of blue main players just fly in a straight line and don’t even try to contend but I digress.

Also gaijin needs to fix the matchmaking and ghost lobbies. That’d be a good start.