Michael Lloyd: Does theology matter?

Rev Dr Michael Lloyd, author of Cafe Theology, shares his story including why he got ordained, how he ended up in academia and why he changed his mind on the ordination of women. He also discusses how to assess the veracity of doctrines and why he believes everyone should study theology.

[RLBays]

These conversations presuppose so much that has never been demonstrated to be true. It’s so strange.

[karenpeterson]

Another great conversation, thank you both. I'm looking forward to part 2!

[seamusomurchadha]

Wondering if a worldview matters leads back on itself to question the emotional maturity of the questioner who wonders ultimately if the search for truth matters.

[IosifStalin]

Each person appears to be his sole arbiter of the Bible……..says a lot about Theology.

[philipjbenjamin]

Does theology matter? Yes.

If we are serious about God should we take the issue of theology seriously? Absolutely.

The question though is what "taking theology seriously" actually is. Is to take theology seriously to be more academic about it? No. The only way to "take theology seriously' is to respond to our current understanding/experience of God with our whole lives. Only this leads to a deeper theological and personal understanding of God (see James 1:22-25, John 7:17, John 8:31 for proof of that).

Seven books of the New Testament were written by fishermen (Peter and John). Would either of these two men have been admitted to Wycliffe College - or to any of the Church of England's bible colleges (without those doing the admitting knowing they wrote seven books of the New Testament LOL)? Would they be considered suitable to lead a prominent London C of E church like say All Souls or St Helens?

We have fallen minds. If we study the bible relying IN ANY WAY on our fallen minds for understanding we will be led into error (as the Pharisees were - John 5:39). Instead we are supposed to receive the Spirit's TESTIFYING to our spirit (testifying is a different thing to teaching - it is not intellectual - it is a RELATIONAL thing - Rom 8:16). This relational experience then BECOMES WORDS - just as we are able to describe in words a person we know really well. Only via the testifying of God to our spirit can our mind be authoritatively renewed - and our broken emotions healed. THIS is why John and Peter were able to write seven books of the New Testament. They KNEW God and their relational knowledge of God became words.

But isn't there a special field for which people need to be trained called biblical scholarship? No - there is biblical scholarship - studying the bible to reach non-spiritual conclusions. This kind of background information may help pastor/teachers to preach sermons - but there is no reason that this particular work needs to be done by Christians. The fact that some scholars reach wrong conclusions makes them bad scholars - not non-Christian ones. There is no such thing as Christian plumbing and no such thing as Christian scholarship.

Nothing I have written above should be interpreted to mean that there are no skills to be learned in rightly interpreting the bible. We find out that there are such skills in the following verse:
2 Tim 2:15 ESV
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

But this verse should be quoted as much to prove that submission to the truth is necessary to understand it more deeply - as it should be quoted to prove that there are competencies involved in rightly interpreting the bible.

Without operating ONLY from one's relational experience of God theological institutions cannot even teach those competencies. For example when interpreting a bible passage the typical first world church preacher will make much of exegetical concerns (the context of the passage), and biblical theology (the way in which that passage is used in the rest of the bible), but because for many this isn't a relational activity - or it isn't ONLY a relational reality - almost nothing is made of the importance of systematic theology. To prove just how systematically incompetent the first world church is currently consider the following systematic example - and the massive implications that arise from it (below I lay out four principles - the first three are accepted in evangelical circles - so why have we not come to accept the fourth?)

1. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb 13:8). Therefore God is.
2. God is unified of character - his various character attributes operate in harmony with each other - they never conflict.
3. God as creator is never changed by his own creation. When he responds to creation - for example when someone is suffering - or when someone prays - he does so guided only by his own unchanging character.

4. If these three things are true it follows that God can only have one motive for ALL of his actions (since no event can cause God's motive for his actions to change). Therefore it cannot be right to talk about God's retributive justice AND his restorative justice. God's justice (and God's holiness, mercy, and grace!) can only have a single motive. To see what that motive is we only need to look to the cross - God's justice is ALWAYS restorative. So then God is not love until he gets angry - his holiness, justice, mercy, and grace are ALL his love. God is ALL love - and ONLY love. (When in the bible we read about God's vengeance this isn't his retributive justice - it is his holiness. We must interpret all such passages in a way that never erases God's unchanging restorative justice - all outworkings of God's holiness are limited to ensure that they do not erase the possibility of people returning to God (but only when God knows that that possibility is not already past).

God's motives do not change even towards those in hell (the only difference in the case of those in hell is that restoration isn't possible - God doesn't in this situation change to delighting in punishment - he continues to be the God who would prefer to restore).

Lamentations 3:31-33 ESV
For the Lord will not
cast off forever,
but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion
according to the abundance of his steadfast love;
FOR HE DOES NOT AFFLICT FROM HIS HEART
or grieve the children of men.

Ezekiel 33:11 ESV
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

How many of the preacher/pastors promoted by the traditional church understand this? None as far as I can tell. They failed to rightly identify the heart of God. This is surely a sign of the fact that leadership of the church needs to be handed back to ordinary people who know God - of whatever intellect and social standing. A mind reliant Christianity is no more noble than racism - it is favouritism towards those with greater intellect.

[katehillier]

Well yes if you are in a church needing to rely on training lay leaders then why the hell not ?’

[mr.c]

ALL theology matters…but only as a response to the personification of the human condition. What doesn’t matter are the interpretations of books that create separation and antisemitism. Keep your opinions to yourself and your tribe of choice.
NO proselytizing!

[simonskinner]

Without the objective truth (theology) of the Holy Bible we end up with Christianity. Creeds trump theology, as Christianity divorced from its roots in the Torah of Abraham.

So few individuals have had a say in theology that they have a status above the Word of God. I as a so-called Christian have examined the 'pillars' of Christianity, and though they are precisely developed, fine tuned and bolstered by famous writers, these pillars are NOT accurate. Easily proven to be false, BUT invested interests lean on these pillars rather than seeking the truth, as blind faith develops when people are told of an unmerited free gift.

Knowing this from my studies I have a Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for NT truth.

[MrAuskiwi]

Theology has been a dead field since its invention.

[mr.c]

So…I am unable to live a fulfilled life without the belief in a deity?? What an absolute B.S. insult to those of us who find hope, meaning, and purpose elsewhere.
I have a list if you like…