NT Wright: Why I reject the idea of an angry God // Premier Christianity

Tom Wright explains why the cross speaks primarily of God's love.

Read Justin’s full interview with NT Wright about his book on the meaning of the cross "The Day The Revolution Began" at

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[bennettjones]

Reading some of the comments I'm struck by what an uphill climb Christians have. What Wright says, what he writes, is not that immorality, wickedness, evil deeds, etc., don't matter. He is not saying that God isn't angry. He is not saying that humans are not accountable before God. He is saying that the situation is more complicated than that. And clearly, biblically, it is more complicated. God's people are wicked and they are lost, like sheep without a shepherd. Paul sets up his letter to the Romans by very clearly stating that the problem from which all sorts of human wickedness proceeds is idolatry. The result is that we are slaves to sin. We are lost, like sheep without a shepherd.
An analogy perhaps is an addiction. A person makes a decision to reject their role to be an image-bearer of God in the world by refusing to treat their body like a temple - they start abusing a highly addictive drug. Before they know it they are enslaved to the drug. All of the wrong things that follow - cheating, lying, stealing, manipulating and so on - are wicked. They are enslaved but also accountable for the damage they do through their immoral behavior. But the solution cannot be punishment because, although they have sinned repeatedly and have brought wrath upon themselves, that solves nothing. They need to be rescued before they can accept their sinfulness and ask for forgiveness. If they are not rescued the inevitable result is death. When an addict dies from an overdose or from other complications of addiction, the death is not punishment it is the inevitable outcome.
In that sense, Jesus' death on the cross is the act in which God, in Christ, takes upon himself the inevitable outcome, the consequences of idolatry and sin.
It isn't that penal substitution is "wrong". It is that it has been overemphasized to the point that no one can even hear the deeper message of rescue and renewal.

[leemary]

Thank Hod for this. Over 30 years with an abusive hateful church destroyed my conversion. Whew!

[mudpit]

Please read The Day the Revolution Began pages 28-49. NTW doesn't deny that God gets angry. God's anger is against sin and wickedness. Please read the man's full explanation of his view instead of thinking you've got him figured out after 1:49.

[SurenEnfiajyan]

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the *wrath* of God remains on him.

[jjreddog]

I wonder if the people who are in Hell would have a take on this? All that hot air about the love of God
makes no sense without the judgement of God against the lost sinner who needs to head to the cross
for Substitutional Atonement. It is the cross where God reconciled Himself to mankind. Happy New Year!

[bobpolo]

The message of the gospel is that we are dead in sins, and that we are cut off from life because of our sinfulness, and that we are under the condemnation of God, which means death. And in our helplessness, Jesus came and took upon Himself our ruined humanity, killed it on the cross, buried it in the grave, and raised it to new life in His resurrection.

And when we surrender ourselves to God, in faith, we become sealed with the Father's promise of the Holy Spirit, who unites us with Christ in His death and His resurrection. The good news of the gospel is that we have died to our old life of sin and death, and have been raised to new life by God in Jesus Christ.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

[irlc]

I also find this problematic because of Wright starts by warning about about half-truths leading to suspect theology, and later quotes John 3:16. It's problematic, not just because Keegan Ryan pointed out John 3:18. But within the same chapter, John explicitly writes, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them." (John 3:36). The Greek word, ὀργή (orgē) used here means:

"ὀργή orgḗ, or-gay'; from G3713; properly, desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy), violent passion (ire, or (justifiable) abhorrence); by implication punishment:—anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath."


To me, Wright has just clearly engaged in half-truths. I'm also surprised Justin gives him such an easy pass on this. I'm sure he knows John 3 well. (Edited to remove odd spacing).

[JMz]

NT Wright is right. Many people present the Father as the angry and blood thirsty god and Jesus as the merciful, loving god who stopped the father from killing us by sacrificing himself to that god. This is false. Jesus was never separated from the Father, he and the Father are one (John 10:30). The trinity is always in unity, it didn't momentarily stop on the cross. The Father was working in Christ to defeat sin and death (his wrath is against sin because he loves).


"God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself." 2 Cor. 5:19

[hescht]

Where does Wright claim what the video’s title claims he does? LISTEN to what he is saying. It’s the evangelical focus and attitude that he is correcting. The gospel is so much more than an angry God needing to be appeased. There is a bigger picture than just penal substitution in the gospel.

[timothy]

Psalm 7:11 says, "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day." Zephaniah 2:2-3 says, "Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you. Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger." Hebrews 10:31 says, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 also says Christ will be revealed from Heaven, taking vengeance on those that don't obey the gospel. God's love on the cross is completely based on His attributes of love, but we don't erase His other attributes and say God is not angry. He is angry at sin and sinners which commit sin because it is against His holy, righteous nature. This is the reason the sinner has no fear of God (Romans 3:18) because they don't want to deal with His righteous anger and judgment. Men calling themselves Bible scholars need to let the living Word of God speak to them based on the content, context, and even grammar; not leaning on their own understanding to make God conform to their philosophical bent.

[danielmann]

"if you take a half truth and make into the truth you make it into a untruth" That's exactly what this short video does.

[DavidIstre]

What I would like to understand from NT Wright's perspective is how can God condemn sin in the flesh through His Son on the cross without either being an angry God, or simply justifying the whole world apart from faith in Christ (universalism)?

[ainsleystevenson]

In the beginning God claimed to be good and said "the soul who sins will die" but Satan implied God is not good and said "you shall surely not die". At present we believe God is unforgiving toward his enemies and burns them in hell, and that we have eternal souls. We believe God is not good and sin cannot kills us...we believe Satan!

[wallboi]

I think he's just making a very important distinction between an angry God who acted out of anger for love, or a loving God who acted out of love and got angry.


I was worried for a bit about what NT Wright was saying, wondering if he was leaning into heresy- I'm still on guard for it, but this is perfectly sound to me. Does it cause him to shy away from specific doctrines and texts? I don't know. Does he teach incorrectly on other topics? Also don't know, but I'm not worried by this clip.

[markskillin]

I really like NT Wright, but I can't go with him here. God compares Himself in judgment and wrath to be like a bear and a lion, both lethal and destructive beasts. God's love and His wrath are complimentary, he seems too concerned about how the world perceives what we say rather than what God has said about Himself.

[natalie_kendel]

I think a lot of the comments on this video demonstrate just how broken a lot of 'Christians' views are about God. (With some continuing to think that God is hateful, revengeful, etc.) Wright brings up a pertinent point, and the thwarted, twisted understanding of who God is really needs to be challenged and corrected in many corporate and individual faith journeys.

[LaMOi]

See what’s faulty about our human understanding here, is we presume that God is either loving or he’s angry, either or, but he can’t be both.

But the scripture clearly teaches that he is both, and both of these states are in response to human beings.

I mean he’s not angry at the trees or the grass or the animals.

And what is this whole “putting people off“? Like man had anything to do with salvation.

Salvation is of the Lord says Jonah.So God either opens your eyes and ears and enables you to respond to the gospel or he doesn’t. But only God can do that.

I think where we go wrong is we assume that if we adopt a different strategy a different approach to “selling the gospel“ we might see more converts.
All you’re going to see is more false converts.

[TheHitman]

God is angry with the wicked everyday.

[jerrybenson]

Balance. Johnathon Edwards preached primarily of the love of God towards sinners but yet preached his most well known sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God!" We might apologize for some Christians explanation of the gospel but we don't need to rescue God for being God.

[janpieterlaros]

Keep going mister! You are one of the few that are true to the scripture and a gentle man.