Are most circuit breakers now obsolete? - Amendment 3 update to BS7671

Yo! In todays video we are talking about the Amendment 3 update to BS7671, Bi-Directional Circuit protection and what I've been up to!

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The works carried out in the video and the opinions shared are my own, and not representative of the associates and companies in the video.

This content is purely for entertainment purposes and is in no way a "how to", tutorial or educational video.

Please consult an electrician when dealing with any electrical installations.

#electricianlife #electrical #electricalengineering

[sergiofernandez]

Good to see you back on YouTube Mike. No need to apologise for lack of content, your true fans will understand.

[neilbridgeman]

There needs to be some perspective here. People coring a lack of bidirectional protection an automatic C2 would only really possibly be where RCDs are supposed to be there for fault protection. The vast vast majority of renewable circuits are surface mounted and not on TT installations so would not need additional RCD protection anyway.

This is a problem that needs sorting and releasing a new amendment is precisely what should be done to do that but it is really not the huge issue in terms of how many devices are out there as people are suggesting imho.

[MPAX]

Good luck on the new stuff.
With this new amendment I can now see myenergi telling you on a warranty claim “oh I can see a bidirectional device not fitted we cant approve the warranty”

[laujovo]

The unidirectionality of "usual" devices only comes from the fact that most RCBO etc. in the UK are based on a microcontroller, right? Reason for my question is I'm based in Germany and we are told that it absolutely doesn'T matter how you connect RCDs, RCBOs etc. and they do not have any markings on them whatsoever, whether one terminal is the load side and one the grid side of it (they are solely based on the electro-magnetic and bimetallic principle).

Would love to hear your comment on it! :)
Oh and by the way get well! Wish you the best!

[johnwarwick]

It is my understanding that the issue is the trip coil burning out as it remains energized once the device has tripped. Makes sense as the power will remain on the "output" terminals, but this won't happen on the majority of solar as it is grid tied. As soon as the device trips then the solar inverter will switch of. I am wondering if the use of single pole RCBO's are more of a problem if there is a neutral earth fault. Interestingly my SMA inverter instructions recommends NOT supplying it from an rcd and if you do it must be 100ma. That is an 12 year old inverter things may be different now. Interesting how these issues are only just starting to show up now when d solar as been about for a good 13 years

[mfr]

I asked engineers about this way back at the start of solar and everyone seemed to think it wasn't a problem. How come the mighty IET only now have got their arse in gear? Are they going to pay to put all the installs right?

[dukeycarrow]

RETURN OF THE MAC 🎶 good to see you and your knowledge back lad 👌

[martinburgess]

Quality 👍by the way missed you at CEF earlier.
You was in Coop.
Martin
Pro Vision property and electrical services 👊⚡⚡

[martinburgess]

Good to see you Mike. Hope all is well bud ⚡👍😎

[effervescence]

I have already been C2'ing installations during EICR's because RCD's aren't bidirectional when protecting solar/ wind power which have burnt out on the solenoid. Initially it was because if the test button doesn't work = C2 but after Mark Allisons video last year I've been amending my comments to list "needs a bidirectional rcd". Biggest issue being that not every manufacturer is making it easy to find out and not every technical helpline has someone at the end of it that knows if their product is or isn't.

Hats off to the chap on Efixx comments the other day that told me to phone M2, their technical helpline is one of the best for knowledge on their products I've had to deal with.
Sadly the latest EICR with an RCD issue on solar I C2'd has gone radio silent, possibly due to the amendment dropping a couple days later and realising they potentially have thousands of installs nation wide which they're now liable for the design and rectification of.

[Richardincancale]

Bi-directional RCBOs sounds like a good idea on circuits with microgeneration but… please correct me if I’m wrong …aren’t most RCBOs inherently bi-directional? They typically rely on a bimetallic strip for light overload, and magnetic coil for big overloads, plus a toroidal transformer carrying line and neutral with a detection coil to trip in case of an imbalance. I don’t see why any of these components would be directional? Is it really just a labelling issue?

[ifell]

Just subscribed to your channel, so well put together.
I plan to have my solar battery hooked up to a 1000w inverter, an IT unit, that has an earth to the vans chassis, but not linked to N. This will then go to a 2-pole automatic transfer switch (ATS) to a single gang plug.
Power will come into the other input of the ATS from a campsite hook-up. Not trusting these campsites I was going to have an RCBO before the ATS then a consumer box after.
Will I need a 2-way RCBO? Kind regards

[walseee]

So if you don’t use a Bi-directional device on solar installs for example it can damage the MCB, so the manufacturers have put into their warranty’s that if they break because of this it’s not their problem?

[leem]

I recently bought the amendment 2 brown books to do my 18th edition. Will these be no good now?

[dansheppard]

I've always thought it dodgy when I saw installs have things like solar on the load side of an RCBO. I couldn't quite say what was wrong, from what I know about the way RCBOs are designed (not an expert), but it's always seemed a bit howyadoin.

[Jake_Baker_Electrician]

Yes Mike! Been waiting for one of your videos! Hope all is well dude 👍🏼

[MrLeecavturbo]

How do you explain that AC is alternating for old devices so they won’t work for a fault that is in the reverse phase ! And since inverters only supply the busbar sub circuits have single direction power flow ( ignoring AC ) and have their appropriate protection as required.
This is as daft as double insulated core SWA’s 🤣

[TechOne]

Get yourself a fuse, they don’t care.