Wayne Grudem on Free Grace Theology | Systematic Theology, 2nd Edition

Dr. Wayne Grudem (Distinguished Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary) explains where Free Grace theology goes wrong.

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[wib]

" save us from the sins" that we have turned from", seriously, if we could turn from all sin we dont need a sacrifice.

[marylamb]

When I first heard Paul's gospel, that Christ died for my sins, was buried, and rose again, I had no clue what "turning from sin" was. If my pastor had told me that, I would have gone back to my old Catholic faith, which is faith in the flesh to finish off what Christ had started in my redemption. Anytime you add self-reformation to the gospel of the grace of God, you are telling God that you yourself are part of the salvation process and thereby you're insulting him to his face. "God has shut up all men under sin, that he might have mercy on them all."

[Billyxtz]

For we are saved by grace through faith and not by the deeds of the law. Works salvation is heresy.

[jeffallanday]

at 0:38 he say that Free Grace position downplay the need to repent. This is actually not true. Most Free Grace teachers and people who promote that theology hold that repenting is important to have a close fellowship with God. They just do not believe that repenting of sin is a condition of salvation. They hold to this because Johns Gospel does not mention repentance of sin in the entire book. Wayne Grudem is not a good person to go to for information on what Free Grace teaches. He misrepresents the theology all the time.

[tallmikbcroft]

Thank you for sharing the wisdom you've been given. Bless and שלום

[robertpeterson]

The clearest gospel message in the Bible is when Peter shared the Gospel with Cornelius and his houseful of guests.

Acts 10:39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross,

40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.

43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.

It gives a word by word account of the Gospel being shared and people being saved.

Nobody made any promises, confessed anything, or repented from sin. They merely heard and believed every word Peter was speaking. The Holy Spirit’s presence guaranteed assurance of salvation to both Cornelius and his guests.

Why would anybody who heard this message in 2023 be exempt from assurance of salvation if they believed every word?

[chrisgoodgo]

it is appreciated that this is seen as an in house discussion.

[GraceCommunityBibleChurch]

The Free Grace doesn't downplay the importance of repentance. We just say it isn't involved in our redemption by Christ. We are redeemed by the completed work of Christ which is received by faith. Repentance is the first step of godly Christian living following our redemption. We also don't believe in a mere intellectual agreement of the facts. We believe or trust in Jesus to deliver on His promise to provide eternal life to those who believe. It's faith in Jesus and His ability to deliver on His promise.

[scherfcom]

A few points/observations on this topic. We are saved by putting our faith in Jesus Christ as our personal Savior (e.g. John 3:16, 36; 1 John 5:12) which is by Grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Acts 16:31). Putting faith in Christ is simultaneously repentance (change of mind/metanoia) as turning from sin (the sin of unbelief, Rom. 14:23c) -- from trusting anything other than Christ as the Savior --, and now trusting in Jesus Christ as the personal Savior.
I think one key in understanding the issue and applying free grace theology properly is to differentiate between relationship with God (salvation which is permanent and immutable once entered) and fellowship with God (discipleship which is often a volatile experience in the growing process). Salvation is eternally secure once entered into that relationship as salvation was the work of God, ... He saved us (He drew us, He gave us the faith and He urged us to put our faith in Christ as our personal Savior, and He regenerated us, etc.) as is its (the salvation's) safekeeping the work of God.
But fellowship with God is always an invitation to cooperate, to be available to let Him do the work in us, through us, and for us, although He Himself actually performs that work in us, through us and for us (e.g. Phil. 1:6). The "normal" Christian life is one of growing in His grace and knowledge (2 Peter 3:18) and therefore living in fellowship with God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, e.g. 1 Cor. 1:9, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 1:3, 7) which will result in an outward manifestation of a transformed life. But let's not forget the principle of 1 Sam. 16:7c.
If someone says that they are a Christian because they put their faith in Christ as their personal Savior, I look at them as a brother/sister in Christ. If someone tells me that they have anything other (pointing to good works, fruit, behavior, performance, a changed life, etc.) than solely Christ as their grounds of salvation, then obviously they are not saved, because they haven't put their faith in Christ as their personal Savior. And that's the scary part when people point to other things than their faith in Christ alone as Savior, because then their salvation is based on other grounds than belief in Christ as Savior. When I stand before God some day and if hypothetically the question was asked why I should be here in His presence for all eternity, then my only answer is "Jesus Christ, He is my Savior" as He died for me and paid for all my sins, ... it's finished, and I trusted in Him as my Savior (and my name was written into the Lamb's Book of Life at the moment/point of salvation). There's nothing else I want to point to, because neither he who plants is anything nor he who waters is anything, but He Who gives the increase (1 Cor. 3:7), ... the same for growing in Christ and performing the works He prepared for us beforehand (Eph. 2:10), ... it's all His work, ... I can't take any credit whatsoever and I can't and I don't want to point to anything other than to Christ as my Savior alone. God bless!

[scottbee]

There are two types of people the elect who “struggle” from sin, and the rest who “embrace” sin.

[justified-by-faithcom]

"an internal resolve to turn from sin doesn't mean we're adding good works to salvation"

Yes it does. If you think that in order to go to Heaven you need to stop certain sins or make lifestyle changes, you are to some extent trying to earn your salvation by being good enough. You are not resting by faith alone in the accomplishment of Jesus Christ on the cross as being all that is necessary to go to Heaven.
And by the way, I don't consider Lordship Salvationists to be evangelical brethren. I consider them to be works-salvationists who are unfortunately still lost.

[krisjustin]

Why would saved people be measuring their level of performance and good works to be sure of salvation if Christ has already accomplished the work on the cross? It’s basically saying Christ’s sacrifice is enough, but we need to make sure it is! Contradictory!

[wib]

Please define what you mean by " repentance" as it relates to salvation.

[yobabybubba]

To learn what free grace theology REALLY is, read Confident in Christ by Robert N. Wilkin and Absolutely Free by Zane C Hodges.

[BSRWeddingFilms]

1:22 “two aspects to faith in Christ” so how many sins exactly must one turn from in order to be saved? All of them? Just the really bad ones? You’re adding works as a condition for salvation. No, one is justified at the moment they believe in Jesus’ promise for eternal life. Repentance is part of the believer’s lifelong sanctification process.

[jeffallanday]

OK Grudem is again not representing what all Free Grace believe at faith. I even don't believe that faith is about reading facts and saying you believe facts. I do believe that faith is appropriating the believe as to oneself. In other words believing that Jesus died for my sin and raising from the dead. The personal aspect of faith is necessary and many in the Free Grace believe that including Jody Dillow.

[Chronicles_]

This twisting of His Precious Grace that we are seeing increasingly, was predicted in scripture.
Jude 1:4
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are UNGODLY PEOPLE, WHO PERVERT THE GRACE of our God into a LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Jesus warned:
Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[letstalktech]

2:10. “ if you believe those facts then you have eternal life” yep because that’s what the bible teaches in many verses.

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

“Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, ”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:1-4‬ ‭ESV‬‬

At the end you’re basically saying you need works to prove you’re saved, if you haven’t turned from your sins etc. How many sins? Which ones? Just the big ones or? Because the The apostle Paul specially says in Romans that it’s not of works, we are justified by faith alone, no works are needed at all. If someone believes Christ and dies 2 mins later, we would all agree they was saved as they trusted Christ, but all of a sudden you change it to believing in Christ and dying 10 years later, it’s about checking for the works.

[matthewlogan]

The rebuttal books on his book really win the debate

[not_worthless]

Repentance isn't works. Sin is called works of the flesh. I honestly don't know which is true. But I will say that "good deeds" definitely count as works right? But if we are a fornicator and a thief and a murderer in practice and say we are saved by faith alone yet in practice remain a adulterer, murderer, anf fornicator, aren't we denying what Paul taught when he said that those who live in these ways will not enter the kingdom of God? And when he said this he was talking to believers, saying don't walk as the rest of the world does.