Bernardo Kastrup and Rupert Sheldrake: The Nature of the Cosmic Mind, with Jonas Atlas

Both Rupert and Bernardo Kastrup are outspoken critics of mechanical materialism. They share a strong focus on questions about consciousness and its relation to the formation of reality. While their ideas exhibit considerable overlap, there are also apparent divergences. Yet, surprisingly, they have not engaged in a public discussion about some of their core interests. That is why Jonas Atlas thought it would be a good idea to bring them together for a hosted dialogue. He sensed that such an exchange could cast a new light on age-old philosophical debates. For example, Bernardo is a strong proponent of idealism, while Rupert often presents a more trinitarian view of existence. This difference (or is it perhaps similarity?) provided a good starting point for a deep discussion on the nature of the cosmic mind. As the conversation unfolded, exploring the inherent consciousness underlying all reality in its deepest depths and highest heights, they both reinforced and nuanced each other’s perspectives. The result is a thought-provoking dialogue about various insights that philosophy, theology, and science have to offer about the divine essence of existence.

Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:32 Part 1: monistic idealism or trinitarian panentheism?
00:16:15 Part 2: what are some good metaphors to describe the conscious ground of existence?
00:20:33 Part 3: approach these questions analytically, allegorically or experimentally?
00:24:08 Part 4: how do the universal consciousness and its expressions interact?
00:34:19 Part 5: if consciousness is all there is, why does matter seem to be unconconscious?
00:40:46 Part 6: are the smallest particles conscious?
00:50:20 Part 7: are large cosmic entities conscious?
01:01:10 Part 8: does the whole cosmos have a mind of its own?
01:03:26 Part 9: why does the unity of the cosmic mind express itself in multiplicity?
01:14:19 Some final words of appreciation

Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy and another Ph.D. in computer engineering. As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research and the Philips Research Laboratories. He has also had a 25-year career in high-technology, having co-founded parallel processing company Silicon Hive and worked as a technology strategist for the geopolitically significant company ASML, for 15 years. Formulated in detail in many academic papers and books, Bernardo's ideas have been featured on Scientific American, the magazine of The Institute of Art and Ideas, the Blog of the American Philosophical Association and Big Think, among others. Bernardo's 11th book, coming in Octobre 2024, is Analytic Idealism in a Nutshell: A straightforward summary of the 21st-century's only plausible metaphysics.

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Dr Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biology as a Fellow of Clare College. He was Principal Plant Physiologist at the International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics and From 2005 to 2010 was Director of the Perrott-Warrick project, Cambridge.

[luisortega]

The care with which Bernardo talks to and about Rupert is very moving.

[ProfessorBowerNexus]

How a discussion with two of the finest minds on the most important subject of our time should be conducted. Gratitude to each involved!

[adamstephens]

I've waited ten years for this. It did not disappoint.

[sveinreinr]

This is great! For two days ago I thought it would be interesting to hear Rupert Sheldrake in conversation with Bernardo Kastrup. I searched on YouTube, but unfortunaly couldnt find any. And voila, here it is. ❤🙏😀

[CosmicConsciousness]

This is by far one of the greatest discussions I have ever watched if not the greatest..

[neilrushton]

Wonderful, respectful and deep conversation between two fantastic thinkers. Thanks to Jonas for bringing them together.

[jcinaz]

The focus of any philosophy is about what is regarded as reality. To the Materialist, matter is reality. To the Idealist, consciousness is reality. From Sheldrake's perspective, he seems to identify reality as energy where the source or cause of energy is a trinity of consciousness. But that to me is still an idealist perspective where consciousness is fundamental.

[morphixnm]

That was a wonderful conversation, especially for myself and othrrs who have been following Rupert and Bernardo closely for years. Much appreciated!

[duncanmckeown]

Fascinating discussion! Two of my favourite thinkers talking together! I'm glad they see eye to eye with each other on so much...since I find myself agreeing with both of them most of the time.

[greensleeves]

That was a terrific conversation gentlemen. More similarities than differences and each was respectful of the other. The moderator also did well by not asserting himself too strongly into the mix. Hopefully there will be future episodes with this same pairing!

[BigJack]

Been waiting for this conversation between Rupert and Bernardo and wow is right.

[chrisallard]

Magnificent to finally hear these two together.
I’ve spent many hours reading and listening to both Rupert and Bernardo - joyous to hear this - and excellent interviewing…
Many thanks

[WhiteStoneName]

Rupert's answer about "Is he an idealist or how does he position himself?" from 2:45 - 9:22 is great. I need to timestamp this to send to all my friends. What a great little summary of my own view but more clearly and articulately summarized (or just in another's voice).

Beautiful laying out of a trinitarian ontology (panentheism). Although the lines btw that and pantheism become difficult to draw...

[Studio-pgsq]

A fantastic conversation - thank you Jonas Atlas for organizing this video.

[nicolesawyer-jmir]

Holy crap - this is Thank you for bring this 2 all of us!!! Love each other folks !

[WhiteStoneName]

One of my favorite intellectual conversations in a while.

Thank you very much. ❤

[HighCountryStudio]

Thank you for bringing these two thinkers together! I’ve been studying them both ( Rupert for a long time, Bernardo recently ) and trying to work out how their ideas are alike and different, so this is perfect for that project.Thanks again.🙏

[workerselite]

What a great podcast!!! Beautiful minds talking about layers of existence we could term as consciousness of the whole! Profoundly Beautiful, Indeed!! Rupert, whom we have been following since the amusing and thought provoking discussions with Terence McKenna about the reality we perceive as existence, to us represents the holistic whilst empirical approach of the 70/80ies and beautifully mingles with Bernardo's vision and perception of the current limits of the quantistic reality proposed by the scientistic approach of the academia to the nature of existence. This dialectic virtuoso is a real quest for a language able to express in a very detailed manner an intellectually updated neorama of consciousness for the 21st century based on the osmotic relationship between content and form of the Implicate Order David Bohm referred to. Blessings to Mankind Empowerment. Kudos from Japan ❤

[Narsufin]

What absolute joy to have listened to such incredible minds in thought provoking conversation.

[tonyscholes]

The world at large (but most especially the materialst scientific community) should carefully listen to and value these two intellectual giants. The importance of their ideas is paramount if we as a species are to survive the current turmoils.
It seems to me that the further we progress scientific knowledge, particularly in the field of high energy particle physics, the more credence Rupert and Bernardo's ideas gain.
Thank you to both (and Jonas) for a wonderful, respectful, insightful and illuminating discussion. I'm left wanting more!