Debunking 'High Frame Rate in Cinema' Myths

Support us on Patreon!

I've gotten so many comments on my Frame Rate videos that I had to do another one address all the false analogies people keep writing...

Show notes on our site:

#FrameRate #HFR #24FPS #Cinema #HighFrameRate

History of Frame Rate

A Defense of 24FPS and Why It’s Here to Stay

A 24fps Filmmaker Reacts to Gemini Man in 120FPS

The Joys and Sorrows of Interlacing

==================

THE ANALOGY MYTHS

#1 Color vs black and white movies 4:09

Want to Know More: FIQ’s lecture of color history:

Edison’s Annabelle Serpentine Dance

Playlist of Early Color Films

Intolerance

The Toll of the Sea

-------------------------------------

#2 Silent vs Sound 7:28

Want to Know More? FIQ’s History of Sound
Edison’s Kinetophone

The Jazz Singer

Starlit Days at the Lido

Edgar Allen Poe

Wings Tracking Shot

-------------------------------------

#3 SD vs HD 10:15

4K Restoration of a Buster Keaton’s “The General” (1926)

-------------------------------------

#4 Film vs Digital 12:19

-------------------------------------

#5 They’re saying the same thing about 4K 13:34

Steven Yedlin “On Acquistion and Pipeline for High Resolution Exhibition”

Upgrading To 4K HDR TV: How Far You Sit From The Screen Is Critical

-------------------------------------

#6 Vinyl vs Digital 14:23

High Frame Rate Psychophysics: Experimentation to Determine a JND for Frame Rate

==========================

And Other Myths:

-------------------------------------
1. 24fps looks terrible whenever the camera pans 15:57

Too Many Cooks

Filmmaker Mode

Bad Shining Encoding

General Hospital Promo

-------------------------------------
#2 I saw a side by side comparison of 24 and 60 and the 60 fps video looks so much better. 19:22

-------------------------------------
#3 We should switch to 30 frames per second as a good compromise.

-------------------------------------
#4 Fine, maybe 24 is okay for the theater experience but you should never upload 24 fps for YouTube 22:17

Official Help for YouTube Encoding

Top ten videos on YouTube
#5 3-2 Pulldown is a bad thing 23:42

-------------------------------------
#6 The problem with high frame rate is filmmakers just don’t know how to use it yet. Hollywood Filmmakers need to experiment more with technology and different frame rates: 26:39

Meridian

Lucid Dreams of Gabriel

-------------------------------------
#7 Variable Frame Rates are the Future 29:07

The Larry Sanders Show Promo

Video Game High School

-------------------------------------
#8 High Frame Rate can’t Make actor’s performances look worse, haven’t you ever seen live theater 32:00

How High-Frame-Rate Technology Killed Ang Lee’s Gemini Man

Motion Smoothing Is Ruining Cinema Filmmakers hate it. Viewers do, too. So why is it the default setting on almost every new TV in America?

Company (DVD)

Want to know more about Acting? FIQ’s Video on the History of Method Acting

-------------------------------------
#9 Well if the 24 cinematic veneer just covers up a lot of mistakes, that just means Hollywood needs to stop being so lazy and learn to act better and build better sets. 35:23

Jean Renoir Parle De Son Art

-------------------------------------
#10 You’re just used to 24fps - being used to something is not a good justification for its existence 38:22

[EEVblog]

You'll never win an argument against The Internet.
It's like wrestling with a pig in mud, you just end up dirty and then you realise the pig actually likes it.

[PoissonVisageStudios]

I'm writing my university dissertation on HFR at the moment. It's entitled: 'Do Audiences Experience a Film Differently at High Frame Rate', and I will be conducting experiments on audiences unaware that they are watching something at HFR, and I'm basically aiming to form some quantitative data on a general audience's subconscious responses to 24, 48, 60 and 120fps. You have no idea how happy I was when this dropped into my subscriptions. Great video as ever: really informative.

[MduPwnn]

The problem with pans on high refresh rates is essentially that the TVs are too good at displaying the frames accurately without any blurring or ghosting - exactly the thing that people claim to want in higher-end TVs and monitors.

What you want for watching most video is some degree of blurring to smooth the pan.

It's the temporal version of the spatial thing that happens to video game art made for CRTs on a modern monitor with sharp, separated pixels.

[Astlaus]

I agree with most of the points given. I have only two comments: 1) I watched Cameron's Avatar in IMAX in 3D. I was in a front row, so the screen in front of me was absolutely massive. At that size and with the addition of 3D, in faster scenes 24 fps was extremely jarring, sometimes to the point of complete visual incomprehensibility. 2) When you talk about "badly encoded videos on YouTube": Video encoder doesn't really care about framerate, it's just processing sequence of frames (which are nothing but still pictures) -- time separation between the frames doesn't matter. The problems you pointed out happened before encoding (incorrect pulldown, changing framerate in the editor, or even just specifying wrong framerate).

[rimateng]

*high frame rate exists
vfx artists : *chuckles I'm in danger

[SmithIsBetterThenYou]

Fun Fact: Silent Hill 2 the game actually used 30fps in gameplay, then, 60fps for pre-rendered cutscenes. Given the look and feel of the game, it made the character interactions more unusual and uncanny. only for the PS2 though. It had lots of bad ports. But you can mod the PC version.

[easterworshipper]

i never gave fps a thought until i got a tv that had 'smoothing', in effect making even a multi-million dollar movie look like a cheap 'behind the scenes' video.

[lenk]

Arguing for movies having hfr is a little like someone saying to use f/16 on a camera because more of you shot is in focus. But shallow depth of field has its own artistic look and purpose

[reddcube]

I want HFR ... but only for the credits. Reading scrolling text is very hard at 24 fps

[NormansWorldMovies]

The reason why filmmakers use 24 FPS for movies is because that is what movies are designed to look like. 24 FPS is just enough to look realistic but no more than that and that is why it is considered the cinematic frame rate, because it doesn't make movies look too real. It makes them real enough, but no more than that.

[KSE]

I watched all the video. First want to thank you for all the effort put into this, I really appreciate that cause I am a young filmmaker and I know how difficult it is to discuss about cinema with people who believe that they know everything just because they Googled it. Honestly the info was great but I would prefer to watch a video with you talking to other experts rather than replying to silly arguments because your knowledge is really worthy, but I understand why you made it. Keep the good work going man!

[kylehart]

In general HFR is an artistic tool that gives a certain aesthetic, and insisting that the aesthetic of 24 is ALWAYS superior for cinema and that 48 looks like a soap opera is missing the point that there are legitimate reasons to choose low or high frame rate when making a film. The 24fps look we associate with movies is great, but it isn't necessary for a movie to be cinematic. HFR isn't the future, it's a tool that filmmakers can use right now and it's worth experimenting with *artistically*, which is a point you never actually addressed. In fact your response to that argument was to ignore it and talk about technical experimentation which is a separate issue, which is an intentional choice to deflect the problem.

Also generally the point that nobody who isn't a filmmaker deserves to have any input on this debate is equivalent to saying people who aren't sculptors or painters are incapable of having legitimate opinions on art. It feels like desperately grabbing at exclusivity to make yourself feel special; sure, if you're not a painter you won't know exactly how the chosen types of paint affect the color and sheen, but you aren't barred from having an opinion.

Likewise, plenty of people prefer 48fps movies when given the option, and casting aside their experiences because they aren't filmmakers is absurd. If they prefer it, you pretend that they don't appreciate or understand the aesthetic of cinema, when the fact is that they simply want to watch films in higher frame rate. They have a different opinion than you and you are deciding for them that they don't know what they actually like.

Viewers are the reason the industry is able to exist, so how is it that viewers who don't happen to be filmmakers themselves automatically have zero say in an argument about what they prefer? To me that's like a chef being so arrogant that he refuses to serve a guest who wants to get a dish with no cilantro. The people who consume media and their opinions are literally the entire market for films, and claiming that they don't matter while knowing that comes across as entitled and childish.

[CalvinsWorldNews]

As someone who's done proper films (as compared to home movies) on Super8 film, I think a lot of this runs true for the 18fps format that 8mm is shot on. It has a real feel that can only be described as 'aesthetic' and whilst the frame-rate and effective resolution are lousy, that's all part of the charm of what I love about rewatching 8mm films.

[Team.Louish]

Did you purposely put a picture of Zooey Deschanel when you were talking about Katie Perry? I know they look alike, just didn't know if it was on purpose or not. @ 23:28

[TazarZero]

Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse had different frame rates used as well, only instead of HFR, they used LFR, more specifically with the kid. At the start of the movie, he's rendered in 12fps, and when he finally understands what it means to be Spiderman, he's rendered in 24fps.

[erik_normark]

You're making the best educational videos about film on YT! I know the feeling having a video going viral and having the whole keybored army of internet "experts" coming in, happily informing you about everything you do wrong... How nice it is to get a video ride up, it also comes at a price.

[LaRobertos]

this guy is a God in film making information period

[pizall]

what was that info window at 18:54 that showed the frame rates on YouTube?

[Argonautx]

When I was managing cinema, it was explained to me that 24 frames per second was about as fast as the human eye could perceive 🤔

That said, that was the 90s with the old school celluloid Xenon projectors

[mickael]

Filmmaker IQ, was The Blair Witch Project and/or the Paranormal Activity movies shot in 30fps before being presented in 24fps in theaters? would that even make a difference since the film is going through the projector at 24fps like any other movie?
When I watched BWP on DVD at home, it felt/looked different but I can't remember why. it looked better in the theater. I don't think it was just because of a larger screen. idk.
I am looking forward to your video on the psychological effects of watching different frame rates. I find this topic very interesting.