Jordan Peterson: The fatal flaw in leftist American politics | Big Think

Jordan Peterson: The fatal flaw in leftist American politics
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What is political extremism? Professor of psychology Jordan Peterson points out that America knows what right-wing radicalism looks like: white nationalism. "What's interesting is that on the conservative side of the spectrum, we've figured out how to box-in the radicals and say, 'No, you're outside the domain of acceptable opinion,'" says Peterson. But where's that line for the Left? There is no universal marker of what extreme liberalism looks like, which is devastating to the ideology itself but also to political discourse as a whole. Peterson is happy to suggest such a marker: "The doctrine of equality of outcome. It seems to me that that's where people who are thoughtful on the Left should draw the line, and say no. Equality of opportunity? [That's] not only fair enough, but laudable. But equality of outcome…? It's like: 'No, you've crossed the line. We're not going there with you.'"Peterson argues that it's the ethical responsibility of left-leaning people to identify liberal extremism and distinguish themselves from it the same way conservatives distance themselves from the doctrine of racial superiority. Failing to recognize such extremism may be liberalism's fatal flaw.
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JORDAN PETERSON

Jordan B. Peterson, raised and toughened in the frigid wastelands of Northern Alberta, has flown a hammer-head roll in a carbon-fiber stunt-plane, explored an Arizona meteorite crater with astronauts, and built a Kwagu'l ceremonial bighouse on the upper floor of his Toronto home after being invited into and named by that Canadian First Nation. He's taught mythology to lawyers, doctors and business people, consulted for the UN Secretary General, helped his clinical clients manage depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, and schizophrenia, served as an adviser to senior partners of major Canadian law firms, and lectured extensively in North America and Europe. With his students and colleagues at Harvard and the University of Toronto, Dr. Peterson has published over a hundred scientific papers, transforming the modern understanding of personality, while his book Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief revolutionized the psychology of religion. His latest book is 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos.
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TRANSCRIPT:

JORDAN PETERSON: I would like to talk briefly about depolarization on the Left and the Right, because I think there's a technical problem that needs to be addressed. So here's what I've been thinking about.

It's been obvious to me for some time that, for some reason, the fundamental claim of post-modernism is something like an infinite number of interpretations and no canonical overarching narrative. Okay, but the problem with that is: okay, now what?

No narrative, no value structure that is canonically overarching, so what the hell are you going to do with yourself? How are you going to orient yourself in the world? Well, the post-modernists have no answer to that. So what happens is they default—without any real attempt to grapple with the cognitive dissonance—they default to this kind of loose, egalitarian Marxism. And if they were concerned with coherence that would be a problem, but since they're not concerned with coherence it doesn't seem to be a problem.

But the force that's driving the activism is mostly the Marxism rather than the post-modernism. It's more like an intellectual gloss to hide the fact that a discredited economic theory is being used to fuel an educational movement and to produce activists. But there's no coherence to it.

It's not like I'm making this up, you know. Derrida himself regarded—and Foucault as well—they were barely repentant Marxists. They were part of the student revolutions in France in the 1960s, and what happened to them, essentially—and what happened to Jean-Paul Sartre for that matter—was that by the end of the 1960s you couldn't be conscious and thinking and pro-Marxist. There's so much evidence that had come pouring in from the former Soviet Union, from the Soviet Union at that point, and from Maoist China, of the absolutely devastating consequences of the doctrine that it was impossible to be apologetic for it by that point in time.

So the French intellectuals in particular just pulled off a sleight of hand and transformed Marxism into post-modern identity politics. And we've seen the consequence of that. It's not good. It's a devolution into a kind of tribalism ...

[kobalt]

Equal outcome:
“Human beings are born with different capacities.
If they are free, they are not equal.
And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[EpsteinKilla]

I love to think they picked peterson up off the street whilst he was talking, carried him to the set as he was still talking, sat him down and rolled the camera.

[sbyrstall]

"You cannot really debate someone who despises you." - Peter Hitchens

[killerdog]

Perfectly said. I hate identity politics. It's exhausting and insulting to be withered down to a pie chart. If I fit in such a slice then these are my struggles, this is how life is not fair and these are my beliefs.
No, I'm am.individual and. I have my own thoughts. While yes I have had struggles, that is not solely because of my ethnicity, appearance, income, etc. I educate myself on success and overcome

[x-rayeducation]

When people start calling "hate speech" and shutting down the other side, then they've gone over the edge and need to be called out. This is outside the boundries of acceptable behavior.

[tnonyoutube]

Holy crap that's a great sentence at the end:
"You can fractionate group identity appropriately, right down to the level of the individual"

[haleydoe]

The man can toss a word salad that you're happy to eat, until you're a few bites in and that "wait a minute, I asked for ranch and this is blue cheese" disappointment sets in.

You're thinking in the right direction, but aligned with ideals that aren't helpful.

[dinkypinky]

The next time some academics tell you how important diversity is, ask how many Republicans there are in their sociology department.
Thomas Sowell

[romanmaszczyk]

The statement that the right knows how to set the boundaries is a stretch at least. A notable example: ‘there were good people on both sides’. Remember that?

[brianniegemann]

I recently had a discussion with a libertarian in which l tried to explain to him the difference between equality of opportunity ( like educational opportunities) and equality of outcomes. I called the equal-opportunity society "equitable". He seemed to think about it for a bit, then said "l don't think l want to live in an equitable society". I was dumbfounded. Did he completely miss my point? Or does he think that some people deserve better opportunities than others just to make sure that life is never fair? Or maybe he just hates taxes so much that he's unwilling to give 10 cents toward making the country a better place to live. My impression of libertarians now is that they are just utterly selfish.

[HeyFella]

I don’t get the people that claim Peterson is far right. He’s constantly talking harshly about the right wing extremists and constantly receiving letters from people who left the far right and found meaning in their life through his work. He’s done more to get people out of radicalization than anyone else I can think of. He’s clearly on the side of fixing inequality he’s just worried about the people who think they can fix that complicated problem with simple solutions.

He’s even stated before that he’s open to universal basic income and he’s in favor of Canada’s health care system over America’s. People have this misconception that he’s against post modernism and Marxism but he’s also stated many times that both have produced insightful and true conclusions but the actions as a consequence of those conclusions is his main concern. He’s not against the philosophies, he’s against the people who think they can impose their philosophy on behalf of people for the “greater good”. He’s even criticized Christianity and religion in general for doing this. He’s a Christian as a philosophical position but not from some moral absolutist dogma.

I disagree with him on some of his problems with Post Modernism but overall I think he’s a valuable voice that gets written off too quickly by certain types of people. I like Chomsky, Foucault, Derrida, Zizek, Nietzsche, and Peterson. I think all of their voices are valuable in their own ways.

[a.krishna]

I like that Peterson said that you can see the end of extreme right, but you can't see the boundaries for extreme left, which makes it more dangerous.

[kaiindigowolf]

Interesting how this has aged. I do not disagree with lots of these points, but I see the right perhaps having a struggle now with where their "gone too far" line is and it has blurred so much with pandemic issues. Lots of work on both sides to be done for sure!

[AltTab]

Hey, need some help here: what did Peterson meant, at the end, when he said that ª...you can fractionate group identity appropriately right down to level of individual"?

[bartolomeestebanmurillo]

Get well soon Jordan, we need your comforting presence especially now.

[AlicitySherie]

“You cannot win if you play identity politics”

[jennysteves]

I think one reason why drawing the line appears to not be done by those on the left is because we are quickly canceled. I know I’ve tried in my small insignificant nobody way and the hate and vitriol fallout is severe.
This is not an excuse for others who witness this to not speak out. But the silencing is effective.

[nwstraith]

This man knows how to put my murky muddy thoughts into crystal clear words

[Edubbplate]

Jordan Peterson has helped me a lot. I'm getting my shit together finally.

[MariaSpooon]

Be careful of the groups who burn the book's,
opportunities to speak,
other people's thoughts,
ideas
and ability to speak freely in a democratic form.