Reappropriating Feminism, Maternity, and the Woman’s Role | Mary Harrington | EP 466

Dr. Jordan Peterson sits down with author and columnist Mary Harrington. They discuss how women contributed to civil society before joining the workforce, the fatal flaw of a male-dominated system, the two fundamental reproductive strategies, the commodification of female sexuality, and the utility of radical loyalty and solidarity between partners.

Mary Harrington is an editor for UnHerd and the author of “Feminism Against Progress.” Harrington also runs a weekly Substack, “Reactionary Feminist.”

This episode was recorded on July 3rd, 2024

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(0:00) Coming up
(0:24) Intro
(2:19) Why Harrington stopped believing in progress
(10:47) How women contributed when they couldn’t join the workforce with men
(13:19) A fatal flaw: “this only works if your husband is a good guy”
(16:21) The feminism of freedom won over the feminism of care
(20:26) Feminist medical innovations don’t fix what’s broken, but “break what’s working normally”
(23:48) The two fundamental reproductive strategies: R and K
(28:51) Transhumanism uses technology to try and abolish our nature, but that’s impossible
(40:55) The commodification of female sexuality
(45:46) The core story of humanity, the mythological orientation of women
(49:29) Maternity leave and the lonely world of modern motherhood
(51:43) The female hero’s journey
(56:44) The motivations of feminists, an acknowledgment for the serious actors
(1:03:07) Feminism means standing for women’s interests, reappropriating the word
(1:08:00) You are to be grateful for your fate, no matter what it is
(1:08:44) Radical loyalty and solidarity: life is a romantic adventure
(1:16:56) The liberalization of contraception and divorce laws

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[wisdomandy]

I've never seen Jordan remain this quiet so for long before. Fascinating

[itsHeatherKay]

As a stay at home mom, when many friends were not, I ended up being the person everyone almost expected would help them during the day with babysitting, emergency errands or such, because they saw me as not busy. For stay at home moms, we end up bearing the weight of several families on our backs in surprising ways. I’m the only one who brings a homemade dish to events when others have bought some processed cookies or snacks from the deli. Women in the workforce means less physical and emotional care to go around. I recently made cupcakes for a birthday for an adult who saved the cupcake on the corner of their desk just to enjoy it for a few days, since it was the first homemade thing someone had given them in years. That was devastating to me. Women’s work is essential to everyone’s health. I wish everybody had more personalized care… including me, honestly. It’s been a lonely 20+ years for me since we move often, and finding moms that live like me is hard. People often tell me I’m the best cook they know (I’m average). The truth is I’m one of the only cooks they know. I feel like stay at home moms are often doing the matriarch role as they are raising their kiddos.

[esm]

I love the "matron" stage. I'm not there yet, but so many times as a young mom I've beem rescued by older members of the community who do exactly as Mary's said: tell me I'm doing fine, offer to hold my child for a second so I can do something, and just generally be loving when instead they could choose to be grouchy and disengaged or disillusioned. Older women (and caring, compassionate older men, too) can really be a blessing for their whole communities!

[NettyB]

Some takeaways:
1. Fleeing from responsibility and sacrifice demolishes meaning
2. Adopting a heroic mode of being is beneficial
3. Women can uniquely tame the brutish
4. Woman and infant as a unit is fundamental to their identity (which our society no longer holds sacred)
5. Modern motherhood is lonely because of a frayed civil society (women largely stay in the workforce)
6. Maiden, Mother, & Matron (latter are backbone of social fabric)
7. Abortion en masse is a travesty
8. Sexual freedom promotes r-type, dark triad men and further damages male/female relationships
9. Progress is largely a hedonistic project aimed at circumventing nature and moral order
10. Birth control was maybe one of the first transhumanist innovations
11. Accepting your fate, whatever it may be, makes it easier to endure it


Thank you Dr. Peterson & Mrs. Harrington!!

[hckyplyr]

My wife is the mother of 7 children. She was a registered professional engineer in three states prior to having children. She gave up a great deal but now never wants to work again. When our kids are all grown she wants to help others, especially young mothers. She is already doing so.

Thus maiden, mother, matriarch.

[AmberMcAvey]

Sit down, folks, for a master class from the brilliant Mary Harrington. She spoke for 22 minutes straight out the gate, and I'm here for it!❤❤❤

[ingridcope]

I treasure marriage and motherhood. I stayed at home during my children's formative years and worked around their Kindergarten hours, worked nigbts while hubby worked days, so one of us was always home. Yes we sacrificed financially, but we had so many hours of visiting the library, exploring the outdoors, creativity...and modelling good old fashioned values, respecting the strengths both men and women have.❤

[pomtubes]

Wow. That is the LONGEST time I heard someone speak on this podcast without interruption.

I'm also a fan of his work btw

[jacquelinehowe]

I have been following Mary for some time and Im gleeful that you had her on your show because it will expose her message to a wider audience. The world needs to hear the eloquent way she communicates the facets of womanhood and the harms of modernity upon the roles of men and women. She in fact is a true feminist who is fighting for the truest form of the well being of women which looks much different than what modern culture persuades women towards. It was a fascinating discussion between the two of you. Thanks so much!

[gregbatchelor]

This woman is amazing, I've never heard someone describe and expound so clearly and in such detail the nuanced issues directly related to the issue of abortion, in the light of the 'pro-care / pro-freedom' perspectives of historical feminism. Bravo, madame 👏🏻👏🏻

[alexandraiacob]

Love Mary. No matter how many interviews I see with her she always gives me something to think about

[autumnleaves]

Another superb discussion, Mary Harrington is an excellent speaker. I liked the fact that she talked about that group of women in their 50s to 70s who do so much work in their communities, once their own children have flown the nest. That is what I have observed too, and we should also remember that many women in the 50 to 70 age group will have elderly parent/s to look after. I can attest to the pitfalls and serial failures of dating, whether it was in the old days of adverts placed in newspapers and magazines or the online dating of the last 25 years or so. There's also been the tendency for governments to want women to get straight back to work after having their children, the mothers are seen as economically unproductive if they stay at home, I'd say they are even demonised in some quarters.

[Masqueesha]

“…the fact that you have a dependent infant for multiple years, LIKE FORTY…”

As a parent to twenty somethings, I felt that statement in my bones.

[jacquelineandrea]

It's wonderful being a women. Motherhood is a gift and should never be looked upon by anyone, especially women as an position of lesser freedom or importance.

[thespian]

I like that Peterson let Mary talk at length without interrupting

[justmbhman]

With the announcement of Peterson Academy, his Joe Rogan appearance, and this new podcast, Jordan's on a roll 😂

[nurmelu]

Embrace being woman, love yourself as you are, you are not racing with men.

[annathompson]

Don’t forget the matriarch’s who are taking care of their grandchildren whilst their mothers are at work! Most of my friends in their 50’s and 60’s are spending around 20 hours a week in this capacity.

[Swedeof]

This woman is bursting with so much information. I'm going to have to listen to this three times to catch it all. My thanks to you ma'am and Jordan, for yet another Viewpoint to see the beauty of motherhood from. As a father of six, I admire my wife for being so focused on her task as if it were nothing at all. She is so in her element I can only watch in wonder and know there is a God.

[patriciachilds]

I am 73 and I have found my feminist home in this woman. Thank you!!!