What Frame Rate is Needed to Simulate Reality?

Last time I talked about the frame of the human eye - this time I tackle the frame rate needed to completely eliminate all the artifacts associated with discrete frame rates. The number is a lot higher than anything currently available!

Want more super high frame rate research - checkout BlurBusters Research Portal which this video used as research:

#FrameRate #Simulation #motionblur

[FilmmakerIQ]

Gaming Monitors SUCK for watching movies.

[woubaey]

A little off topic, but this explains why motion blur settings in video games are so controversial. If you're not tracking objects on the screen with your eyes, the motion blur helps to make the motion look smoother. However, if your eye is tracking the object across the screen, it just ends up looking blurry and bad. The solution would be to only blur things that are in peripheral vision. Thats why racing games can get away with copius amounts of motion blur on the sides of the screen because 99% of the time the player is looking ahead ay the road. In an fps, the player may be looking at and tracking objects all over the screen, so it's much more difficult to choose which objects to apply motion blur to.

[hastesoldat]

Still the best video about this on the net in 2024.
Not only it's correct (which is impossibly rare when a video talks about this) but on top of that it's very well explained. I especially love how you tie together both artifacts (persistence blur and stroboscopic stepping) and how you can't solve both without brute forcing to 20K+ Hz

[lethallohn]

Great Video. It's interesting how divisive talking about frame rates is. I enjoyed how you tackled the topic!

[tia]

This video is AMAZING!!! As a vr enthusiast this is some of the best presented information to explain persistence and other ideas related to visual clarity ( and preventing motion sickness ) that can't be simply explained with "bigger resolution" and "more frames". Thank you for this!

[ProPlayeryoutube]

No clickbait, straight to the answer, and then expl. Perfect video❤

[AusSkiller]

Great explanations, mostly what I had already concluded for myself, but I hadn't considered the blur the motion of the eye was contributing and how ULMB improves that. Very interesting and well explained.

[brett]

probably the best explanation of eyetracked motionblur and strobioscopic effects on youtube kudos. so many people including film makers and game developers don't get it, I will direct them to this video👍 for gaming I think per object blur selectively applied to very fast or non continous motions that won't likely be eyetrackable is a good compromise.

[qvarfoto]

Amazing stuff as usual, John! Thanks for making these videos. Cheers

[willin]

Your explanations are always more then clear

[christophermarsden]

Need more of these edu videos.. don't have time for the 1hr+ live chats and I have watched all your other educational videos and love them. 24 FPS forever.. LOL

[Respectable_Username]

Sorry for fourth comment, but I notice you're responding to a lot of folks who didn't even watch the video. They're not worth your time and energy! You made an amazing vid, and if they're spamming a comment and leaving without watching, well, at least their comment is adding to the algorithm!

Anyway, just wanted to say I loved the video and watched the whole way through and sent to my friend group. Your efforts are appreciated and you should feel proud of a brilliant video!

Also, big thumbs up for putting the answer in the thumbnail. I only clicked because I know that when somebody answers the question in the thumbnail, I'm in for a good time ❤

[jet_mouse]

I play a lot of osu, and when I move my mouse back and forth really fast I can get my cursor to move at 19200 pixels per second! I just recorded gameplay with my phone (at 60 fps in my camera's pro-mode you can see multiple frames of my 240hz monitor at once), and during gameplay on my 1080p monitor I get more like 9600 pixels per second. That's 40 pixels (the width of my cursor) every frame. Also, while I play I sit like 15 inches away from my 27 inch monitor. I would probably need more than 20, 000 to have no artifacts in this case!

The thing is, I'm not actually sure if the human eye can track objects moving that fast. It might help that I know where the cursor's going, but I also feel like I focus on the circles a lot of the time. That won't stop me from buying a 1000hz oled, nano led, or similar display whenever they make those. I would love to have some really fast pixel response times with my 1000hz monitor

[Alice_Fumo]

These results check out with my personal intuition. In high level gaming, mouse speeds can approach (or even surpass) 10 000 pixels/second. So since I think that would not look quite smooth to me even at 1000 fps, (but might at 1500+) to imagine having smooth motion across my whole field of view at something like that speed would require like 6 times as many fps which makes the lower limit for smooth motion for my gameplay ~9000fps. This is in a quite similar ballpark as the 20 000 fps claimed and just based on intuitions and very rough math.

[PeterPalDesign]

Amazing video. Great quality content. Subscribed. Keep up the good work.

[Dargaard]

5:47 there are some directors that need to hear this, I hate going to a movie and seeing 24fps with no motion blur on a huge screen it looks like a slide show. Directors that allow motion blur have fantastic looking movies. I'm not a film maker and don't know the terminology but motion blur is very needed on the big screen.

[BlurBusters]

Hola, Chief Blur Buster has entered the room. Thank you for mentioning me in YouTube! I'm in over 25 peer reviewed papers.
Ask Me Anything! (AMA)

[rich]

Thanks, this helped me understand why I tend to react to city skyline panning shots in films as appearing too choppy

[dream.machine]

Perfect video! You being a strong 24fps advocate, I didn't know you talked to Blur Busters about high frame rate and high refresh rate! I am an advocate for higher fps video and usually shoot my videos at 4k 120fps and sometimes 240fps. I use motion blur to give it that realistic look. For videos in my experience 240fps has much less stroboscopic effects with motion blur than 60fps with 360° shutter or 120fps with 360° shutter.
Now with video games this is a whole different territory. I can easily see how we would need 20000fps at high resolutions for gaming to look EXACTLY like real life. But honestly over the years, its been a matter of cost and performance. CPU's and GPU's would have to be exponentially improved which in this case to get to 20000fps performance would take several years to get to with simething like CS:GO, Volarant, Fortnite and or something that isnt too demanding graphically. Displays are a whole different timescale. I would estimate that even a display with 4k that refreshed at 1920hz wouldn't be out until the 2030s. But 20000Hz or 20Khz is 2040s or even 2050 technology. That's considering constant improvement in modern ways of upgrading GPU power, display cable support and much more.
Now for video, you can technically achive realistic video that most people wouldn't say they needed it to be smoother or better at 240fps with 360 degree shutter, 480fps would definitely nail it in my opinion.
But at the end of the day we'll have to see how technology evolves over the next 30 years as far as display tech is concerned. We will most likely innovate quicker with VR displays since they are smaller. Bigger displays wouldn't necessarily be obsolete if at all, but the upgrades would probably be smaller... That's just based on the last 10 years of advancement that I witnessed.
Then there is online streaming. Maybe 6G can cover that 20000hz needed in 1080p or maybe 1440p, but I'm thinking 7G would be needed for modern higher resolutions of 4k and 8k at 20000hz. But we would need potentially Terabits/s (TB/s) to get a consistent uninterrupted stream for wireless gaming, video would be fine at hundreds of Gb/s.
This is off the top of my head, and im really glad once again you covered this topic Filmmaker IQ! This is a topic that will last for decades my friend! 😅

[Respectable_Username]

11:26 Interestingly, I'm watching this video cast to my TV (42in, 4K, ~3m away) with glare from a window on half the screen. For the first half of the movement in the non-glare section, the cursor is quite smooth, but in the glarey part of the screen it seems to "flicker" a lot more. I'm assuming this is due to the "shutter speed" of my eye getting shorter in higher light conditions? Otherwise can't think why that'd be