Wayne Grudem on Open Theism | Systematic Theology, 2nd Edition

Dr. Wayne Grudem (Distinguished Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary) explains and critiques Open Theism.

To watch more videos about theology and Scripture, and other content produced by Phoenix Seminary, please like this video and subscribe to our channel.

[JewandGreek]

"God behind the scenes ordains in advance what history will be and what actions we will take, but we aren't aware of what that is in our life and He doesn't violate our will, but somehow enables us to choose what we most want to do but that fits in with His plan for what we are going to do" So if God ordains what actions we will take, how is that not a violation of our will? Sorry, but this is theological Swiss cheese.

[robertpeterson]

Was God telling Cain the truth that if he corrected his attitude along with his sacrifice that he would be accepted? Or did God plan before time that Cain would kill Abel? Open theism is an attempt to take the Scriptures at face value... a thing that Calvinism only does when it suits them.

[Noteworthy]

Our free will doesn’t interfere with God’s omniscience and his omniscience doesn’t interfere with our free will. He knows what we will do but we still have free will. He knows the future and even ordains it but we are responsible for our choices. He is omniscient and powerful enough to be aware of, to know, and to have a preplanned response for any of our possible choices even though he knows what we ultimately will do because he’s not limited by time and space. So even though He knows what we will do and Whether or not we want to cooperate with His will it is still our choice.❤

[zzehyboy]

A man says to you, "God determines some events, but not all. Therefore, if God yet ordains to give even one more free choice to someone, then the future is at least that much open."

Then he asks whether he is an open theist or something else. What do you say?

[tyrothrock]

Open Theism is the only system that is truly faithful to the Scriptures. These “scholars” just learn about what others taught about the Bible such as Augustine or Calvin and just adopt their understanding. They don’t have a single opinion for themselves. If you carefully read the Bible Open Theism shows that God knows all possibilities at that moment but none are certain until they happen. Such as when God says now I know, or because you have done this or that.

[chainlinked]

This wasn't a substantive refutation of Open Theism at all.

[showponyexpressify]

What about all the instances in the bible where god regrets things... Where it did not turn out as hoped? The future is not 100% known to god.... And hence the sickening problem of freewill is solved.... If not so then there is absolutely no freedom and very little point to anything. The cosmos is highly unlikely to be a DVD just playing out its pre recorded tracks. The reason time even exists is just so creative future possibilities can be realised. The present moment is simply the collapse and selection of future possibilities into reality and history.

[michaelhochstetler]

Literalism is the issue. If we assume a literalistic interpretation of Scripture, the Open Theist position is hard to argue with at key points. For me the takeaway, however, is not that God doesn't know the future, but that not all of Scripture is meant to be taken so literally. I would add that, if we take all such Scriptures literally, we have a God who doesn't fully know the present, who moves around in space, has a body, etc. Just read Genesis, or Psalms. Opponents of Open Theism would be in a much stronger position if they could provide a better rationale for interpreting these parts of Scripture non-literalistically. This, by the way, could solve a host of other serious problems, many of them having to do with science and faith.

[BandyAndysExcellentEssays]

When I read the Bible I see Open Theism everywhere, especially in the Old Testament. God's people are constantly trying to persuade God not to do what He said He would do, and sometimes they succeed. God even asks His angels for advice. In Jeremiah 18 God says explicitly that if He says He will do something but the circumstances change, He will no longer do what He had planned He would do. Also prophecies don't contradict Open Theism because prophecies aren't predicting what will happen they are statements of what God will bring to pass. If a pool player calls his shot, no one is impressed by the pool players foreknowledge, they're impressed by his skill. Prophecies are similar, they show off the power of God, not the foreknowledge of God.

[dantombs]

Interesting, do you feel the same way about Calvinism?

[garyh]

If God knows His own future choices, how can He be free? He’d be unable to do otherwise.

[FutureNotFixed]

God doesn't need to know the future in order to guide us in the present in order to build the future. This is self-evident.

[briancross]

Anyone thinking prophecy doesn't' provide massive proof for open theism isn't looking very closely; Jonah's prophecy, the prophecy that the people of the Exodus would make the promised land, prophecies God revokes in Judges 2, Hezekiah's prophecy, God predict Israel will repent only to admit He was wrong, God predicts if the message is told verbatim (later even written) they will repent, the prophecy of Babylon taking Tyre that they grow bald waiting on, the prophecy of Egypt taking Tyre, Jesus predicting his return in his follower's lifetime, God predicting he wouldn't lead Israel through the exodus, or that He would destroy them and start over with Moses .... all in all, close examination of prophecy leaves us with an open view from the bible.

[dantombs]

Yes let’s make enemies of a Christian Brothers, on topics that are highly disputable. Topics that clearly need better definitions, explanations and Biblical scrutiny. Let’s separate on these things! I’m sure this will make Christ proud. But first let’s adds a stoic air of smugness And Divine privilege.

[FutureNotFixed]

Ah, Grudem explains his motives: he published a text on theology so when the open view began to spread everywhere he felt threatened because people wouldn't buy his book. Grudem is simply plain wrong about Isaiah and doesn't know the text of Isaiah at all, period. In Isaiah God gives a revelation of many things he will bring to pass in the future. He says He will do a 'new thing' and DECLARES it to Judah before it comes to pass, because he is going to make it happen. This absolutely has nothing to do with 'foreknowledge'. There is no 'fortune telling' here, no crystal ball into a metaphysically PRESENT future. God is simply revealing plans he intends to accomplish. He is not reporting the future, rather, he is reporting his plans. ANYONE can see that. Just read the plain text.
Mr. Grudem did you actually listen to yourself talk and what you implied? You assume that God could not reveal through Isaiah that Jesus would come unless God SAW the future. Think about that. Didn't God PLAN Jesus to come? Isn't that what the Messianic prophecies in Isaiah repeatedly and PLAINLY state? How can you actually miss that?
Example: I have power to get in my car and go for lunch after I finish posting. I'm telling you NOW what I'm GOING to do. Does my telling you what I'm going to do in the hour PROVE that the future is there for me to see?
I will be nice: I will make a video and deal with the significant passages from Isaiah you think teach the future is already there so God could declare the end from the END. And I will use clips of your statements from this video to show everyone how the Doctor doesn't have basic reading capacity.
And you can personally award me with an honorary doctorate for convincing you once and for all.
If not, I'll just take all your supporters and followers. Tell people your theology text is wrong, but keep the money you made off of them to teach them a lesson about gullibility and insist they become open theists. Let's be friends. Look at this as opportunity rather than a problem.

[spartianknight.]

Interesting that he doesn't mention L.D. McCabe or Gordon C. Olson.

[garyh]

God knows everything he wants to know of everything there is to know. For instance, He created the universe, included the way anatomies functions. I believe that He trusts that human digestion operates consistently without the need, or desire, to peer into the sewers every time a toilet flushes. Yet I have spoken with Christians who claim that He could not be God without that bit of data.

[bonniejohnson]

Titles??? The bible says Jesus was a man of no reputation, therefore how are we gonna obtain one? Willie

[spartianknight.]

"If absolute foreknowledge be true (God completely knowing the future from eternity past), it is impossible for God to put forth or to originate/initiate/create a simple act of His will to choose anything new to himself, because all His actions that He will ever put forth were always foreknown to Him from all eternity. If His actions were always foreknown to Him from eternity, then the knowledge of His actions are as eternal as He is. If that knowledge is as eternal as He is, then He could not have originated/initiated/created it (because it is eternal, having no beginning as Himself); God could not have originated those thoughts of knowledge any more than he could originate/create Himself. God couldn't be a thinking entity because thinking involves creating new thoughts.
Now, if God did not originate/initiate/create His volitions/choices, then He cannot have a free-will, because He can not have the volition to create a thought new to Himself which would change the present moment in which He is dwelling. If God does not have a free-will to have new thoughts, then He cannot be a living person. If God is not a living person He must be impersonal. If He is impersonal He must be without consciousness (because a living person has consciousness but an inanimate object or force doesn't). If He is without consciousness and has a real existence, He must be without moral character or sympathy. He must be mechanized in all His activities and movements from eternity to eternity, wholly blind and unyielding, not to be persuaded or affected even by prayer."
(Reworded from LD McCabe)

[John-jhks]

Is it too hard for us to believe that Almighty GOD knows the future? Why would this be impossible to believe?

We’re not capable of believing that GOD knows EVERYTHING.

So we’re incapable of believing that GOD knows everything?

The GREAT I AM, who created EVERYTHING - doesn’t know everything?

HE knows everything - we have FREE WILL as free as our hearts choose …. HE just knows - we were once unaware that GOD knows, but after believing in JESUS CHRIST - GOD in the flash, we know.