Did the early Church have popes? (with Suan Sonna)

In this episode Trent sits down with Suan Sonna to discuss the evidence for the early papacy and how to answer Protestant objections to it.

[CapturingChristianity]

Thanks for publishing! I’m only about halfway through but already getting a lot out of it. I liked Suan’s mention of a priori arguments. That’s where it’s at :)

[jeremiahong]

Hopefully Dr Gavin Ortlund will finally have the open heart to accept this.

[luiszapata]

Man Suan + Trent talking about papacy... is like Vivaldi to my ears

[timmaddock]

A very impressive case you've put forward Suan. Really appreciate hearing from you!

[rosiegirl]

I am praying for Protestants to listen to these two great thinkers, and see with clear vision, the one true Church that Jesus established for all.
Everyone likes to root for their team to win...Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, etc...
What we need to root for is team Jesus!!! ❤

[michaeldonovan]

With regards to scriptural interpretation, I never hear people bringing up Jesus's interaction with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus, where "... beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself." Jesus himself had to teach them correct interpretation, which then presumably informs the development of doctrine and interpretation. Wouldn't we place a high value on that?

[Charcharrashelltywuiw]

This is amazing! Having a debate with my Methodist Grandmother and need all the help I can get! I believe in my heart and by faith, but don’t have the background to explain. Thank you for all your references I can use! Hopefully we get our lost sheep back into the Church ❤️

[rowlandr]

Listen to the talk on YouTube, by Dr. Brant Pitre called the Jewish Roots of the Papacy. Also, Steve Ray talk called Peter, the Rock, the Keys and the Chair.

[loretomorales]

Great Catholic Faith apologists with their vast knowledge about the scriptures. God bless you both Brothers Trent and Suan.
May you not get tired defending the Catholic dogmas against the woke protestants trying to destroy our beliefs and faith!

[TheThreatenedSwan]

One reason I never took to protestantism was it seemed they might as well not have many verses of the Bible like Mt 16 19 or 1 Cor 11 27 (guilty of the body and blood of the Lord) or the various verses speaking of the importance of Baptism

[waseemhermiz]

Of all Catholic apologists Trent is the best of a lot of greats.

[AlbanianChristianity]

Rome became the hub of pilgrimage after Peter’s and Paul’s death, it was called the “Holy Land”. Many of Church Fathers went there on pilgrimage.

[DanielFernandez-jvjx]

To respond to arguments from silence, we can remind that: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[OrangeXenon]

Suan explains the papacy the best to other Christians. His reflections on its Jewish roots is spot on.

[penguinman]

The big question that comes up from this is why then did the church (if it did have a central authority) not have one at the time of the schism between the Orthodox and the Catholics? As I understand it, the reason for the break was that the Catholics wanted that central authority restored while the Orthodox argued things should stay decentralized as it had been for many years.

[TheThreatenedSwan]

If you're going to have authority in the Church, you have to be obedient to those with authority in the Church who ordain you. Anyone being able to simply be a part of the Church authority or go off and lead their own church at will while there also being a heirarchy where the leaders are to be obeyed and will be held to account in their role does not make sense. The treatment of authority in the Bible isn't consistent with the protestant view on authority

[TheThreatenedSwan]

It seems like protestants undervalue how the new testament and new covenant is the fulfillment of the old. I noticed this as a child where they loved to talk about these old testament figures and remembered all their names and what they did, but as sort of entertaining tales rather than as figures in salvation history

[jonathanstensberg]

It should be emphasized again and again and again that petrine succession is precisely the kind of thing we would expect to NOT be in the Bible. It simply was not a relevant question yet.

[robertopacheco]

Despite himself believing in an immanent eschatology, St. Paul nonetheless made provision for church leadership into the future. Thus, 1) St. Paul commissions 2) Sts. Timothy and Titus to lead worship and oversee the assemblies on Paul's own authority. Later, 3) those "approved men" appointed by St. Timothy or St. Titus will in season "lay hands" on 4) their successors as elders/presbyters/bishops. That's four generations of church leadership attested to in the NT. The burden is on those who deny apostolic succession to show us from "sola scriptura" what's the date of expiration for this clear pattern of appointing approved men over the church.

[joiemoie]

Hello Trent Horn,

I’ve been watching your entire debates, and I’ve noticed that while you debate very strongly in philosophical points, your opponents often times, in poor nature, attack the Catholic Church by making generic arguments against the Church, such as pedo priests, violent 30 years war, etc. You don’t often respond, and say the debate isn’t to defend the Church, but to defend God.

I was wondering if you could polish up and be more on the offensive, showing how atheism and relativism caused the Communist Revolution and the largest number if killing in human history in such a short term. I was wondering also if you find anyone receptive to very offensive arguments, or if it hardens them and turns them defensive. Finally, I want to know your opinion on Living Waters, whose argumentation strategy is not even bother to address every single argument they bring up, but to give them the direct unfiltered Bible and commandments.

Thanks Trent for your great work!