Climbing Knots: How to Tie In With a Figure 8 Knot

Climbing Magazine is producing a series of How To videos in 2012 to demonstrate a number of skills and techniques. In this video Julie Ellison, Climbing Magazine Gear Editor, shows how to tie into the climbing rope with a figure 8 knot.

Thanks to our partners: Wild Country Red Chili, Vertical Girl, and New England Ropes.

[torbjrnfjeld]

Great video! Might be worth mentioning that the tail needs to be a minimum of 10cm... (or as they say in the rope access industry: 10 times the diameter of the rope). This was however clearly shown in the video above.

Backing up the knot? Nope... whilst the idea might make sense, here's a few points:

A scaffold knot also need sufficient tail... so people argue that you tie the figure 8 with sufficient tail to tie a stopper which may not have it... well, that doesn't really make for good practice and awareness.

Why back up a figure 8 with an inferior knot?

How do you back up your scaffold knot on your cowtail/lanyard? ;o)

How many overhand knots do you use for joining ropes? Just one? No backup?

How do you back up an alpine butterfly? The statement "always back up your knot" has no hold to it. People only do it because somewhere down the line it was said with a voice of authority to do it, and people started doing it just because "I was told, so I'm telling you".

So why not tie one:

Wastes time and rope... not the biggest concern in recreational climbing, but still...

It clutters up the knot and makes it more difficult to inspect visually! It serves no safety purpose at all, so why clutter up the one that does with an extra knot? Some have even managed to clip into one of the strands between the two knots on their way up!

"But it's good if you tie the figure 8 incorrectly"... this screams incompetance and that you shouldn't be climbing in the first place. If you're unable to tie in with a figure 8 (or should I say "if you're able to tie a figure 8 incorrectly"?) and your partner fails to spot that, you don't know what you're doing! Maybe he/she didn't spot that because there was another knot there too... well, you both just failed!


So tie the figure 8 knot correctly, with sufficient tail and leave it at that. That is also what manufacturers such as Petzl, Beal, DMM etc. etc. say. You will not find in any rope access literature where it is suggested to back up a figure 8 knot.


But, having said all that: if you're using a bowline... yeah, you need either a stopper knot or a correctly done Yosemite finish (my favourite... easier to untie after I load it with my 100 and some kgs). The bowline is not really suitable in its basic form without constant loading, as it can work loose easily.

[HairyMember]

the climbing walls i go to like to see you do it, added safety i guess, plus uses excess rope if there's too much left after the 8 :)

[blinkbiker]

I think most gyms require a barrel knot (This is the proper name, not a stopper, safety, or fishermans). But really, as you said, the ONLY purpose of this is to get rid of the extra rope. This is not a safety knot and it doesnt make the knot 'stronger'. Canadian and American guiding regulations say 6-8 inches of tail left over is safe, and it really doesnt matter what you do with the rest. Look up the Yosemite finish if you want to see a nice clean lead climbing knot

[EvanMagelssen]

yosemite back ups will actually untie your knot if not dressed. "stopper" knots can get caught on things. CWA and AMGA say 6" tale is perfect. doesnt get in the way and wont get caught on anything.

[jigthejelly]

am i the only one who looked up figure 8 harness after kosdff video XD

[patob]

BACK UP YOUR KNOTS omg why would they show this