Douglas Murray and Jonathan Pageau | EP 290

Jonathan Pageau, Douglas Murray, and Dr Jordan B Peterson discuss our hierarchies of perception, existence, faith, and whether meaning is a self evident truth or something intangible that is sought in vain.

Jonathan Pageau is a French-Canadian liturgical artist and icon carver, known for his work featured in museums across the world. He carves Eastern Orthodox and other traditional images, and teaches an online carving class. He also runs a YouTube channel dedicated to the exploration of symbolism across history and religion.

Douglas Murray is a British political commentator and author. In 2007 he founded a think tank called the Center for Social Cohesion, which later became part of the Henry Jackson Society. Currently he is an associate editor for the magazine the Spectator, where he became somewhat infamous after organizing a competition in which entrants were invited to submit offensive poems about Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, with a top prize of £1,000. He has authored five books, the most recent of which being “The War on the West.”

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—Chapters—

(0:00) Coming Up
(1:10) Intro
(4:18) A Precondition for a Rational World View
(10:29) The Battle of Conceptions
(14:55) Perceived Unity and the Glass
(21:58) Do Science and Religion Overlap?
(29:41) The Hierarchy of Perception and Action
(38:45) The Bible Was Not Written Forensically
(48:25) Using the Least Possible Thing to Describe the Realness of Everything
(57:07) Are We Meaning-Seeking Beings, or is There Meaning?
(1:05:56) To What Degree Does Something Exist Prior to Elaboration?
(1:12:04) The Cause of Demoralization in Our Society
(1:17:58) The Advantage of Organized Religion

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[jonnyw]

Peterson, Murray AND Pagaue???!! We are blessed!! 🙏✝️

[johnowens]

When you see Jonathan looking around, listening and talking, you can see how much he enjoys these talks. Murray gives the challenge and Jordan is in heaven. We are truly privileged to witness this conversation.

[hobbsmatt]

As a lifelong atheist/agnostic raised in the presbyterian church, it wasn’t until a very close family member who was Antiochian orthodox just recently passed away that I started to feel my inner architecture shift towards some longing curiosity towards orthodoxy. For whatever reason, talks like this one and others involving Jonathan Pageau have completely blown me wide-open, kicked down the doors and started remodeling my inner architecture. I’ve never been this kind of person at all, but I found myself weeping tears of joy/relief on my commute to work this morning as I listen to this. Thank you, gentlemen. Now starts my real work.

[YouTubeComments]

Keep getting Jonathan talking to all these new people. He's the best.

[ky]

This conversation has helped me to realize God has been so graceful and merciful in the midst of my agony.
Praise God for his blessing on me.

[symmetricat]

Great talk. Douglas is not only a sharp & eloquent peer, but also astoundlingly thoughtful, adaptive & creative. His closing monologue is ridiculously powerful.

[jonnyschaff]

Getting married this weekend and baptized into the Orthodox Church this Pascha. God willing. Thank you so much gentleman. I was on a very very dark path. Redemption is very real to me now thanks to these holy ideas. I have nothing but love and admiration for you men and all your difficult and courageous work. Please keep moving forward with zeal.

[eternalperspectiveofficial]

The way Jordan recognizes and respects Jonathan's wisdom is so beautiful to watch. Douglas was a brilliant guest and posed all the right questions.

[dancl]

50 years as a Christian…and It’s insane to me that this is the best sermon I’ve ever heard!

[ThePaulmaxey]

It's a blessing that we are able to listen to great conversations like this.

[BreakOutOfTheAlgorithm]

I can sit and listen to Jordan Peterson all day long. I truly believe he will go down in history as one of the most important Men of our time. God bless you Jordan, and your wonderful family. 🙏👁️

[flaviusdorel]

This is in all honesty the best and highest level of discussion on multiple levels that I heard in my entire Life.
Thank you Jordan, Jonathan and Douglas! You have my absolute respect 🙏

[CarlosVargas-jzgl]

Douglass was a perfect choice, very good with expressing ideas! And he asks the best questions 👍🏻 another round of these three together would be great!

[flashflood]

As a minister for over 12 years, in a time where one's efforts seem questionable, this conversation brought great reassurance to the value of my chosen pursuits and profession. Thank you.

[AudrinaOralay]

I feel like I'm starving in my doctoral program and you three, with your fascinating discussions, makes my brain feel actually engaged, fed, and excited. Excellent discussion, all of you! Lovely to see different points of view coming together to discuss such tough and fascinating ideas.

[waynebell]

It’s incredible to me that Dr. Peterson looks even better now than he did before he was sick. Truly incredible.

[mariespinosa]

Thank you to the three of you. Wonderful conversation. So grateful to live in a time that I can listen to intelligent educated men at my leisure.

[margokupelian]

Douglas Murray, regarding your notion that “there’s nothing in life that matters” I would say, submit your life to Jesus and see what happens to your life. God is everywhere. He’s in nature, He’s in the daily human experience, He’s in the human suffering, He’s in all things, but people don’t want or can’t see Him which is sad.
There was a time when I thought philosophy, psychology, metaphysics had all the answers to life and they fascinated me. Thirty years ago I was going through very hard times in my life and I couldn’t get out of it, then I thought of God. So I knelt down and cried out to Him to show me the way to find peace and … He reached out to me right away. I felt His presence and a tremendous sense of peace and I KNEW in my heart that I found what I was looking for: GOD. God is so simple and yet so profound. No use in philosophical explanations and attempts to find a meaning to life and to human existence. He is the only source!

[ALSET-_-MUSIC]

Jonathan is clearly a genius. I know a lot of people might see him as a third wheel in some sense. To me, he has my full respect. He is thinking well beyond what most people give him credit for. Jonathan, if you see this I want you to know, I see you brother. “Fractals”

[rumekpadamrophe]

Aren't we all so privileged to listen to conversations like this for free!