Explaining Elisha and The She Bears to Joe Rogan and Douglas Murray

Joe Rogan makes fun of Biblical stories in episode 1084 of his podcast. I try to clarify the meaning of this story.

My links:

The music at the opening is Russian Eastern Overture, by Rimsky Korsakov.

[gabrieltaillon]

When is your turn on Joe Rogan's podcast?

[peppy]

That's interesting, man, but have you done DMT?

[janethorsman]

Love this. My husband had a band in college named Elisha’s Bald Head! Yes, for real. 😂

[pemasset]

I'm astonished that even though I've been watching a your videos for more than a year, I finally find this video of yours recorder 2 years ago and you still have something new to teach me.

[troydrury]

I wonder why people who claim to believe the Bible always feel the need to water it down in a way to make it more palatable to unbelievers. The correct interpretation is that sometimes when you mock what God is doing, you get destroyed for it, so don't do that!

[johnbeyerym]

Hey Jonathan. There is another understanding of Ham seeing his father Noah’s nakedness that’s accepted by scholars. To see your fathers nakedness in Hebrew means that he slept in his bed with his fathers wife. It’s a power play in tribal hierarchy. He tried to take dominance which got him and the son from the ordeal, Canaan, exiled.

[danielfranco]

Finally!!! Thank you!!! Hate when Joe brings this up, he always looks so satisfied with himself whenever he brings this up!

[mysteidolon]

Dear Jonathan, here's what I wrote seven month ago to Rogan and Mrray, it's in fact, learned from different yeshivot studies, thank to bring the perspective with Noah, here is what i had written to Joe Rogan: "Elisha stuff, just for you Rogan dear, baldness in bible is about no legitimity, and hairy means meaning of thinking (those thin threads comming out of your head are thinking adress to other who glow from your head, and Elisha is wearing a hairy garnment to express that: i.e. i'm now in charge (as a prophet/ a legit authority)) When the little boy call him on his baldness, they are in fact saying: we do not recognise your authority neither the authority of your though, prayers and words, the little boys saagain "go up" to the baa'l altar, i.e to the altar of the pagans, no to bethel (bethel meaning the house of god). In fact these little boys are sjw from ancient bliblical times. So, Elisha curse them " you do not have to tell me that because i'm with god authority. And the she bears (two of them) appear. These she bears are mothers. As mother, they are full of compassion for their cob. As bear, they are so protective of their cobs but also prompt to punish the so dangerous behaviour of their cobs. And when Elisha received the charge of prophet, it was an agrement between tribes to prevent civil war. The little boys (read: ignorant social justice naive warrior) were in fact sparkling wars. And so, as she bears, their mothers torn them (but do not kill them) because these mother were so protective as bears, their children believe themselves invest in authority, and so the she bears have to discipline them. thanks." And thanks (many) again Jonathan.

[cuthbertsboots]

I had been thinking of doing a channel like yours for a long time, ever since I discovered Jordan Peterson and mystic Christianity. Now that I have discovered yours, I am wondering if I should attempt it or not. There is clearly a hunger for content like yours and Jordan's. I have been trying to figure out exactly how Jungian psychology can fit in with orthodox Christianity (lower-case "O"... I am not Eastern Orthodox, though I find great agreement with it), and I think that by using the writings of the early and medieval church leaders, whom I had always thought Jung was channeling, you have nailed it. And, as you said in your interview with Rebel Wisdom, I think the worldview you defend is a completion of the one Jordan Peterson lays out. He's so close. At this stage in my study, I don't think I could do nearly as good of a job as you are. I still have a lot of learning to do.

I have also been thinking about this story of Elishah and the she-bears. It is so frustrating when people who are as intelligent as Joe treat such an ancient and clearly metaphorical story with such triviality. But, admittedly, it is understandable considering the story is quite bizarre to modern sensibilities. But the Spirit imparts spiritual things to those who are spiritual, while to the world, they are folly. I think of Bernard of Clairvaux's statements regarding this passage in his treatise on the New Knighthood. He sees this story as a type of Jesus' own ascension upon the cross of Calvary. Instead of "foolish servants, " those Christian inhabitants of the Promised Land were "good children" who praise our own "Bald-Pate, " Jesus Christ, who was taken up on the cross and bared His own head and unveiled His own face for the salvation of the world.

Anyway, thank you for the channel and keep up the good work! You have inspired me to continue to dig deeper into history, into the great traditions of the faith, and into the magnificent Spirit of God.

[Christophermdiogo]

What’s fascinating about Ham bearing the nakedness of Noah is that there is another very plausible explanation that goes hand in hand with God’s Law: the nakedness of Noah was not merely Ham witnessing the drunk and exposed body of his dad, but that Ham fornicated with his mother to assert tribal power over the family. In the Law, it is described that a man’s nakedness is the nakedness of his wife, and furthermore detests any instance of a son knowing their mother’s nakedness, for that it is their dad’s nakedness. This makes sense as to why the sons of Ham, namely Canaan, are so dreadfully cursed, for that they were conceived in treacherous sin against the Holy One.

I love your work and can’t wait to learn more!

[kacperpotocki]

If a story requires this much convoluted explanation to make a little bit od sense, that means it has lost its power to represent important messages to people.

[hocndoc]

This is a favorite example of the evil or pettiness, used by atheists wishing to mock the God of the Bible, so it's important to be able to answer them.

Although Jonathan's talk about nakedness and covering is enlightening, there's a simpler explanation: These young men (a mob, at least the 42 who were mauled, possibly more) had either witnessed or heard from their neighbors in Jericho who had witnessed Elijah's "going up." In effect, they were mocking that miracle of God and telling Elisha to do the same.

[hamishcleod]

What allows Elijah to throw a curse? Are not witches supposed to be killed?

[imogen.magenta]

It is very much about the shadow. Indeed the part of yourself you feel most ashamed of you will mock in others - and in doing so mock it in yourself and thus more deeply repress it, depriving yourself of it’s worthy qualities and full self actualisation. This will eat at you and pull you down like a bear. Mock someone’s vanity and you may keep your own beauty in the shadows, growing bitter. Mock their laziness and you may drive yourself to early illness and death through overwork. Etc

[existentialexplorations]

Thanks Jonathan, that's a credible and useful account of the biblical story. Your explanation does bring out a tricky element though. While I think we need to be careful not to be too quick to expose and judge the misbehavior of others there are certainly times when we need to call out bad behaviors. Perhaps when bad behaviors are hurtful to someone and are often repeated - like a trait of character. Perhaps the answer lay in approaching the misbehavior's of oneself or others in a loving way and with a motivation oriented to a good outcome rather than an orientation to destroy? Its a tough one.

[joshuasy]

Wow... i didn't realise this was such an archetypal story, i thought there was something i was missing but this is an outstanding explanation!

[philm]

This really clicked with me. Thank you for explaining it. I feel like I got a bonus story since I never understood the story of Noah and his sons after the flood either. I often mock people online by highlighting ironies and hypocrisies and other amusing inconsistencies, exposing their errors. Sometimes it is playful some times it is admittedly a little harsh, sometimes it is deserving, sometimes less so however I think I will have a serious think about whether or not I want to repeat that pattern.

[treacheroustiger]

Oh no, Jonathan's bringing the biblical hammer of symbolism down on Joe Rogan. This is going to be epic!

[Alexlinnk]

It's incredible how pleasent is the feeling of connecting the actions of the stories and the meaning of the symbolism apart from the knowledge and all.

[danieljohnston]

Bro thank youu, God led me to you. I remembered rebuking the church about sexual sin and I fell into it.But I’ve realized that at any rebuke I’ve given, im tempted of the same thing, by the wisdom of God. I repent🙏