Catholics, Mormons, and The Great Apostasy

Many groups, including the Latter Day Saints, believe that Jesus brought true faith to the earth, but it died out or was utterly corrupted after the death of His last apostle.

But what does the actual history tell us?

Jeremy Christiansen, a former LDS missionary, shares his own struggles with the idea of a "Great Apostasy," and what he found when he began to dig into the written records of the earliest Christians, some of whom knew the apostles themselves.

[onlylove]

When I was a protestant believer I never read the early Apostolic Church Fathers for myself, but when I did I was stocked with what I read. To be truthful it was scary, but soothing @ the same time.

But one of the reasons I started to read the early apostolic church fathers, was bc I realized that the Apostles did not fail to teach other faithful men after them, & pass down traditions= as 2 thess 2:15 states.

Plus we see it all over the Holy Bible, that the Apostles were teaching other men, so i wanted to kno who were these other men after the Apostles died..

I realize that if the apostles failed, that means Jesus Christ failed, bc he did not train his Apostles well enough to train, & teach other men. then I realize if Jesus failed that means the Holy Spirit failed to, bc he did not keep the church whole as one= as John 16:12-13 states.

So I went to the early church history, & basically that's all she wrote, and now I'm on my way home to Rome crossing the Tiber praise the Lord...

God bless u all🙏🏼💯🇻🇦

[petersoumwei]

Thank you very much for writing this. There was never any apostasy.

[fescot]

This isn’t a question of whether men failed or not. The fact is that Jesus made promises to protect, build and guide. Jesus has not failed to keep His promises.

[robkratz-hahn]

It's not that they believe Ignatius or Polycarp are evil and tried to distort the teachings of the apostles, but that they believe ALL of the successors of the Apostles are evil - every single one of them. They can't point to a single one of the 2nd or 3rd generation of church leaders that taught the "correct" doctrines after the Apostles died. How likely is that??! What utter failures the Apostles were!

[kramyeppun]

Here in the Philippines, we have this Iglesia Ni Cristo which was founded in year 1914 by some guy named Felix y Manalo. They preached that the Church in the 1st Century was apostasized.

[dustinrich]

When the Roman Catholic Church started the practice of indulgences ( the act of paying the church money to cover for your sins) is a great example that they lost the authority or blessings from god and the world was in the state of apostasy. Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins and he only asks in return is to believe in him and proclaim his gospel.

[Ggdivhjkjl]

That's a very straightforward way of sorting things out.

[CelestialComrades]

I do not want to start a fight, I just want to clear something up, a great apostasy does NOT mean that the apostles failed, it means that the people around them failed to accept the Gospel

[TruthHasSpoken]

Good points. I always have LDS open their bibles to the table of contents. I then ask how is it that nearly 300 years into a Great Apostasy, nearly 75 years after Nicea, that the Catholic Church, led by mere men all of whom were Trinitarians, could have got their New Testament exactly right, 27 writings out of 300+ early Christian writings? Why trust them?? So too, why trust 16th c Catholic Trinitarian men in central Europe, led by a Priest named Luther, for their Old Testament canon being 39 writings?

[AJKPenguin]

An off topic question: where are those two churches featured in the title slides?

Is one of them the oldest Catholic church in Ohio, that being in Somerset?

Thank you Jeremy for your testimony and your book. It's kind of funny though, this episode is the third mention of Jeremy that I have heard this week. Perhaps God wants this message out, front and center; he wants me to learn more and share great news.

[bigjohnconnect]

exmormon here, now catholic. God is all powerful, all knowing. God don't make mistakes. why would the lord Jesus Christ who was God of the old testament, take on a human body, establish his church through his apostles who were men who Jesus loved and trusted, Even Judas, who were capable of schism, All powerful all knowing God, To have all that work taken away by man? Really? One of many reasons why I left Mormonism.

[completeTeresa]

Even in the Mormon faith the Great Apostasy could not have happened. Supposedly, this so called apostasy happened after the Apostles died. However, the Apostle John, never died and is still among us like Three Nephite Disciples.

[petersoumwei]

Thank you for writing this. There was never any Total Apostasy which was cooked up by a modern prophet Mohammed

[blossom]

Can't wait to see the full interview 🥰

[alantomlinson]

Unlike the common belief amongst Mormons, the apostasy was quite gradual, and was completed in 570AD.

[brotherinchrist]

Roman Catholicism follows a different creed, and a different bible, then protestants and especially those who follow the KJV Bible which comes from the Antioch manuscripts, not the ones from Egypt which is what the Roman Catholic church uses.

Roman Catholicism does not believe that Christ's death at the cross as being all sufficient for our salvation, and thus adds works to their salvation. When the vast majority of people do not read and study the Bible, asking for the Holy Spirit to guide them in all truths and understanding, this is the end result, as we see many people who blindly follow what they are told by their priests, bishops, the Pope, and so on.

Idolatry is not even listed in the Roman Catholic list of 10 commandments, and they break up the last commandment regarding coveting things in 2 parts to make up for it.

Regarding Mormonism, well we have all manner of warnings from Jesus himself and the apostles regarding false Christs, false doctrines, and we know how to test a prophet in Deut which Joseph Smith Jr fails, along with being disqualified to preach and lead any congregation according to the New Testament.

There is a massive amount of factual proof, most from the very LDS church archives, in which the LDS church hid information, facts, truths, for as long as they could on many important issue that proves they are a religious cult that will send many to hell, for they believe in a different Spirit, a different Christ, a different gospel, then what Biblical Christianity preaches.

We have an LDS apostle Gordon B. Hinkley admitting it:

[dkbradshaw]

There can be an apostasy, as foretold in the Bible, without Christianity completely dying out. What was lost, that affected changes in doctrine more than anything was authority. We can clearly see the apostles frantically fighting against false beliefs in the Bible. When they were gone it was basically a free-for-all. The message of the Latter Day Saints is that it was not utterly destroyed. It is here.

[danielmeakin]

Good refute of a false Gospel. There isnt a shred of evidence of any of the "restored truths" of Joseph Smith which means they were never taught. If they were thered be more than the twisted interpretation of Bible scripture they use and certainly early church father writings would reflect some of these "restored" teachings.

This is one of the best things to point out to LDSaints to help them wake up (with love). Joseph Smith didnt restore anything but brought a new, degenerated Gospel.

[TheRastacabbage]

Can a catholic point me to mary worship, idolatrous rosary beads etc in scripture?

[bobbq]

It wasn’t the apostles or prophets that failed, it's people that failed. Hence, with no prophets or apostles on the earth, the church was very much left in a state of apostasy. What the true non catholic, original, non literal cross bearing, Christians left behind did in fact, get carried over into the catholic church. Again, unfortunately, with no proper priesthood authority, apostasy was inevitable and Christians started manipulating and oppressing the people ironically as enemy pagans and romans were so doing. Henceforth, we get the roman and greco or orthodox catholic faiths split even between themselves. More divisions with protestantism followed. Personally, I absolutely refuse to believe in a church that does not have modern day prophets and apostles. On top of that, it's quite clear from any catholic or protestant faiths, a notion giving more than no thought of God's work in the western hemisphere. What you catholics and protestants are saying is not so much that God couldn't, but that he didn't do ANY work in the other side of the world. Not till 1, 492 years till Christopher Columbus "discovered" a land already inhabited by millions of God's Kids? God's kids that neither the catholic, nor protestant faiths had a clue about for nearly 2000 years? On top of that, with ruins left behind by certain ancient inhabitants of the Americas, we can date back these ruins to thousands of years before Jesus Christ's birth too. So you catholics and protestants mean to tell me God did absolutely NOTHING with any of His ancient American kids for well over 5000 years besides make them and their lands?? If I were truly a loving and kind, most generous and gracious, fair God, and God IS all of that, I would bear my testimony of Heavenly works such as Jesus Christ to ALL of my kids on BOTH sides of the map throughout ALL of history. Anyone, including people in my church can know not just the Book of Mormon is true, but that God has way more to say than what's recorded in the books we call the holy bible. Evidence of the apostasy and more of the word of God is never found, it is earned. Anyone disagree can bring it on. This very LOUD and proud combat veteran has far more fight left in him than yall think. Just like the brave catholics and protestants, all Christians before me that stood up to obvious evil, blatant corruption amongst their own ranks, I aint backing down either. Haters, come and get it while it's hot 🫴