Essential Doctrines: Roman Catholics Can’t Agree, Either!

[TruthUnites]

To anticipate comments: disagreements about essential doctrines no more disprove the perspicuity of scripture than the existence of atheists disproves the perspicuity of God’s existence as averred in Romans 1:19.

[anglicanaesthetics]

It's baffling how many Roman Catholics are missing the point. Gavin's point isnt that there is *no essential dogma* agreed upon by Roman Catholics. There is an essential dogma agreed upon by Protestants: the death and resurrection of Jesus. The issue is that there is no list of essential dogmas one must believe to be saved in RC. Roman Catholics disagree about this.

For instance, is it dogmatically necessary to believe that no one can be saved unless they are explicitly Roman Catholic, such that invincible ignorance is exceptionally rare? You have conflicting interpretations of how to read Unam Sanctum and Vatican II together. Some theologians would say it's not rare for Protestants to be saved, while others would say it is. Do you need to believe that if one chooses not to salute an icon, they are going to hell? Depends on how much of Nicaea II one thinks is dogmatic. Is it absolutely necessary to salvation to accept the filioque? Most Roman Catholics would have said yes, except the Pope has canonized Eastern Orthodox Christians in the past century.

[aaronbarkley]

They can't even agree if all roads lead to heaven these days or not...

[linny]

This idea that Catholics and Protestants are the same in disagreements is laughable. If a Catholic thinks its wrong to baptize babies by reading scripture, they are wrong, period. If a protestant thinks its wrong, its "not an essential"

[Caleb-dnyq]

I wish we could all unite behind the essentials listed out in the apostles creed. In essential unity, in nonessentials liberty and in all things charity.

[blueticks]

I’m so glad you made me aware of this because this is a question I struggle with as a Protestant.

[stevenjames]

The catechism literally lists the things that Catholics must believe and in the catechism, we find basic orthodoxy, derived from the Bible and the creed and the early church … catholics that don’t believe these things are simply rejecting what the church teaches whereas your churches literally teach competing theological systems and their own catechisms…

[joshuascott]

Funny, I watched Heschmeyer’s video and commented making the same point, among others. He replied, but not to that point.

[gardyloogubbins]

I think a lot of people in the comments section may be missing a good point raised by Gavin's video, which is that for all its claims to institutional certainty and unity, the actual day-to-day reality of the Roman Catholic Church is not that much different from Protestantism.

The Catholic says: "We are united in our beliefs..." Yet, in the comments of this very video, I see Catholics claiming both "We don't have a list of essential doctrines, but we do have a mechanism for determining essential doctrines, " and "We do have a list of essential doctrines."

The claim that Protestantism produces confusion in the Church loses some of its punch when one realizes that confusion exists in all traditions.

[anthonym.]

The biggest issue for me in this area is that the catechism is not valued enough in many local RC churches. Many catholics are simply ignorant to many of the church's teachings.

[theepitomeministry]

It's also important to note that their argument is a complete non-sequitir.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, Roman Catholics and/or Eastern Orthodox Christians ALL agree on what is necessary, and only Protestants don't. Does that make Protestantism false? No. Does that make Sola Scriptura false? No. Does that mean tradition and/or the Magisterium are now infallible? No.

At most, you would have one consequence of Protestantism that the ecclesial types might find repulsive, but it doesn't make it false.

I think your point is great, too, however. They don't agree on the essentials either.

[davidspalding]

Imagine standing on the sidewalk and you watch Gavin drive by while he’s talking to his phone. He’s cooking. Then he drops this bomb of a video

[mooretristan]

But thats not the claim of the Catholic Church. Joe was showing that the claim that Protestant churches are united in the essentials of the faith is a farcical claim, and that the mainline denominations fail this test by any objective measure. The difference is that the Protestant paradigm defines its communion in terms of shared essential belief, while the Catholic does not. And even accepting that what you say may be true, that only makes it worse for your position, since apparently no one has the list of essentials in this case. But that isnt a problem for the Catholic, since our communion is institutional, so even if theres no list of the essentials for the faith, we have assurance by our institutional unity that we are holding the true faith.

[BornAgainRN]

The Roman Catholic Church can’t even declare if an unbaptized baby goes to heaven or not if he or she dies. That’s definitely an “essential.“

[faithfulacresfarmhouse]

As a Catholic, I completely see your point. One thing I would like to throw out there, is if one sees from the eyes of the Catholic (I know, I know, just bare with me), (with the belief that the Catholic Faith was started by Jesus, is guided by the Holy Spirit, and has been preserved through the years) looking out at the different Protestant churches, that many important beliefs of our Christian faith are NOT agreed upon. In other words, it isn't a physical "list" problem (in my eyes), it is the fact that the unity (the agreement) on the different doctrines on "the list" is NOT there. So from a Catholic perspective, we see groups of people (who loves and fear the Lord - that's not in question) who agree to oppose the Catholic faith, "debunking" it's Truths, while also opposing each other. How is one to know what they should or must believe, if all of these groups and denominations claim to be "The Church" of Christ yet have no agreement on what should be believed? Long story short (I apologize), it isn't what makes up the list bullet by bullet, but rather that there isn't unity among majority of the bullet points themselves. For example: the argument would be should baptism be on the list? I believe (again my thoughts) that the Catholic concern beyond this is the fact that there are so many understandings of baptism (no unity on it). Therefore, before we create a "list" of essentials we need agreement upon what those essentials mean. Hopefully that makes sense.
PS I enjoy your channel and believe you are impacting many people and their Christian faith in a positive way. God bless!

PSS, If someone says they are Catholic but does not believe the Church's teaching, they aren't really Catholic. Random, but I know one would say there are inconsistencies within what Catholics should believe.

[Nrev]

The creed literally encompasses the essentials, the catechism gives more detail, and the living magesterium is always clarifying and reacting to our ever changing world. Gavin, please you’re the best Protestant apologist. Please do better 🙏🏾. If 20 Catholics disagree that means some are poorly catechized.

[mtt]

THANK YOU!! I was researching Roman Catholicism as a protestant and I had heard different versions of what purgatory is from Bishop Barron, Trent Horn and Jimmy Akin. Then I started going to mass just to see what it is like and I started asking the priests and Bishops and I kept getting different answers. Even after making an honest effort to understand it I still cannot pin down EXACTLY with 100% certainty what purgatory is from listening/asking catholics to explain it to me.

[mollypowell]

Thoughtful video as always. What is your definition of “essential doctrines?”

[Cahrub]

There are 2 essentials to the Christian faith:

1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

Two things us apologetic egg heads dont do enough of, which I'm most guilty of.

[aericabison]

I think the Apostles’ Creed encapsulates all the main beliefs of Christianity nicely.