Why do we struggle to learn languages? - My take on Gabriel Wyner's Ted Talk 🧐

Today I want to comment on a Ted Talk about why we struggle learning languages. I found this talk very interesting because the experience of the speaker, Gabriel Wyner, was actually very different than mine. He uses "spaced repetition" a lot, for instance, something I personally do not use.

What do you think about it? I really encourage you to go watch it and hope this new format is interesting.

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[baronmeduse]

There are several approaches to language which all work, for different types of learners. What Wyner does is make the mistake of deciding that his particular way is the 'key'. This happens a lot in language learning.

[fionarussell]

I want to qualify thinking. I taught English and French at university and have studied nine languages to a range of levels, from beginner to fluency. I found Gabriel Wyner's take very fresh. Personally, I use a mixture of Krashen-style comprehensive input, lots of speaking from the start via Tandem, iTalki and events. I also do storylearning and acquisition through speaking to people with magazines. One of the things Gabriel Wyner discusses in his book completely correlates with what you say about the emotional aspect of language learning (which is essential). Unlike most Anki users, he wants us to connect with images and think in the language rather than through translation, which is excellent advice. The only problem is that making his style of flashcards in Anki is extremely time-consuming and laborious. The app he has developed to circumvent this cuts out a lot of time, but it's still a bit long to use. Another point he makes that resonates is not learning grammar through exercises, but rather through analysis of model sentences. I love grammar, but since tailoring my approach to this method, I get on much better with learning grammar rather than laboriously studying case tables and irregular conjugation books. At the end of the day, language learning is a deeply personal journey, but emotional connection is key and I do think his method addresses this.

[kodyrrr]

I haven't listened to the TED talk but your summary was interesting. A part that you mention, kind of off-hand, was that you do a lot of self-talk before you go into a conversation. I imagine sort of like working through different ways to say things, express yourself and such. I do self talk a lot. It helps me decide how I want to say something in a given situation and also gives me a bit more confidence that I will be able to express myself. If anything, it's keeping the mind actively thinking in the target language which is definitely helpful in learning. Anyway, those are my thoughts on the video. Good job, and I think the reflection format is cool.

[Eternal_Foreigner]

Spaced repetition I've found to be good for certain words, but it depends a lot on the word. Rare words tend to have a lot more nuance, which makes them very hard to learn that way. But common words also don't make sense to learn that way, because they're so common you'll pick them up naturally. But for the words in-between, especially words with a simple meaning but still uncommon, spaced repetition is fantastic for these. Some examples: "ant", "cupboard", "hover"

[Lucretia]

I have his book and it's a really easy read, for as far I got, I do intend to get back to it. It's an interesting idea on how to learn a language and I'm a technical person and think his method may work for me, yet to test. I didn't know he did a ted talk, so I'll have to watch it. His background is interesting, as his job, opera singer, involves singing in multiple languages. But, what works for one person, might not work for you.

What I found particularly interesting what his suggestion to learn the IPA of the language, which he states will give you the accent of the target language, 😁.

[emmasayers]

I'm English and have learned several European languages to various degrees. I think one of the main reasons people whose first language is English have trouble learning other languages is that English is a distilled version of German, French, Latin... among others! Some concepts just don't exist (or exist in a different way) - it's like trying to explain what colours are to a person who has never been able to see.

[WineSippingCowboy]

I read Fluent Forever. It is helpful 🙂 I used spaced repetition. It works ok 👌 for me.

For me, story learning and conversations are better ways for me to learn.

Both of my parents are polyglots, fluent in 3 languages. Other relatives know more than 3! 🤯

As for me, I speak Spanish 🇪🇸, French 🇫🇷, German 🇩🇪 and Tagalog 🇵🇭. The last language on this list, Tagalog, is recent for me.

[ValentinCabezas]

I used space repetition for an agrology class to learn 50 species of grass and trees and their characteristics. I passed the exam but I think that making the flashcards, choosing the pictures and editing it, was the key for me to remember.

I think Duolingo works with spaced repetition too

[habeng]

Thanks for the video lovely Laura. I think language learning is a bit more complicated than one or two techniques that might speed up the learning process. The best analogy I have found for language learning/acquisition is that it is like a construction project. There are different approaches, some more effective than others. But in the end of the journey, what matters is how well the project was designed, coordinated and implemented. It’s not about how fast you’ve learned, but also about enjoying the experience (like you said, having an emotional connection to the target language). And of course, there are many tips and suggestions that can enrich the learning process 🎁📚🧐👩🏻‍🏫👨‍🏫

[kliudrsfhlih]

I'm an MA applied linguistics student. I am spending my academic life trying to approach SLA as a science and trying to inform people about the science. There aren't a lot of issues where there is consensus in SLA, which is a problem. Some theories account for the same facts in different ways, which is another problem. However, we do have lots of research and evidence, and we can at least go ahead and try to use that (as opposed to talking about personal experiences and opinions; like in the humanities).
1) that TED speaker begins by talking about the "myth" of children learning faster. I would like to point out a few things. People who believe this do not always use native speaking children for the comparison, but also immigrant children who learn to speak their L2 fluently (and pronounce it well) after one year. This happens because of some situational causes, including the time on task which is thousands of hours, when adults end up spending a 100 hours throughout the same one-year period (as the TED speaker points out), but also the extremely small size of their vocabulary and grammatical repertoire. But this is not the end of the story. I feel sometimes people want to believe counterintuitive things because it makes them feel more intellectual, but the actual observation he would have to oppose is not (in research) that children learn fast and adults struggle, but that (statistically) adults in many learning contexts including naturalistic ones achieve less in terms of accuracy and show a lot of fail-success variation which does not exist in children learning their L1s and is not as pronounced in children learning their L2s. As you can see this is a long, nuanced sentence, that's why it's difficult to communicate, we prefer unnuanced, easy to understand things (like Krashen's hypothesis, no offense to him btw, he is still kind of right, he just has very reductive takes on very complex issues, at least in the context of academia). I recommend Michael Ullman's Abralin talk on the declarative-procedural model for SLA, which is a research-based neurological model of second language acquisition that deals with the brain's memory systems. His model can explain why adults become less efficient at learning languages, because as we age the procedural memory system declines.
2) When it comes to spaced-repetition, there is no scientific theory where flashcards result in fluent speech. It also cannot help with depth of knowledge, words can only be used when you know their connotation, common collocations, its grammar, other possible synonyms that are less appropriate to use, and other types of information. However, vocabulary flashcards can help with comprehension and they are very efficient at that. For more phrasal stuff, when accompanied by actual experiences and input, sentence falshcards *may* also help to proceduralise grammar, under Ullman's model. It is important to understand however, that spaced repetition cannot offer almost anything in terms of pragmatics (when to say what to whom), socially acceptable use or culturally bounded expressions. For that you need input, experience, attention and sensitivity as well as some guidance sometimes.

[HelgeMoulding]

I have spoken only German to my granddaughter since she was prelingual. These days she's four and understands me fine, though she doesn't speak fluently, yet.

[futurez]

LIke you, I think he was probably doing some comprehensible input along with his decks of SR. For that reason, I don't personally believe the _'there are many ways to learn a language'_ idea. I think we all learn the same way, . It's just that some of us don't know what that way actually _was_ and so put it down to something else they did.

I get why people (who know it's _really_ comprehensible input that got them success) don't say that on a public forum like YouTube - because it triggers those who think it was all the Anki revision they did, or all the grammar exercises and vocab lists they made, and who wants to deal with those kinds of comments? 😂It's just an easier life to let them think whatever they like.

I guess if they still get there, it doesn't really matter what they personally believe made the difference, only that the advice they then give other people can be misleading.

[zantas-handle]

I believe that it happens a lot in MANY areas of life, when people extrapolate their own experience into a 'general theory'. It seems that Social Media actively enables this exaggeration of individual perspectives. Just look at the comments - I feel that people often assert their opinions as facts. We seem to have forgotten the idea of _suggesting_ a perspective with words like 'perhaps', 'I think' or 'it's possible that'.

[thomasfleck]

💁‍♂️different methods will work for different people... btw that's also how we started to learn english at school, english only from day one💪

[aoife]

I have ADHD and I become insanely interested in something, I'm obsessed and dedicate all my time and energy to it. But then I lose energy to do anything at all so it's harder to stay motivated 😔

[grancapoEstiqaatsi]

I use spaced repetition, in the form of phrases, but then I try to use the new words as soon as possible in conversations, to create that link with real life

[maufernandez]

Me gustó su video, pero creo que cada quien tiene su forma de aprender. Yo lo que trato de hacer es hacer todo lo que algunos dicen y ver si me funciona. Saludos.

[hcm]

I have never used Anki, spaced repetition or any other kind of flashcards.

[decluesviews]

I used Pimsleur, which uses spaced repetition, and it was helpful for me. However, I wasn’t as consistent as I should have been, so I didn’t get the full benefit.

[KratosThunder-qrih]

I've seen that ted talk you're referring to and yeah im a bit skeptical as well as you are coz that's not how ive learned English, and i think he isn't really telling the whole truth like for instance he was interviewed with a language he was learning for a short period of time and it was his very first time speaking the language but he nailed I find it poppycock tbh .