Fermented Foods, Fibre & Immunity | Dr. Sonnenburg & Dr. Gardner | The Proof Podcast Bonus EP

Specifically we covered:

0:00 Intro
3:35 Dr. Sonnenburg’s Story
6:35 Defining the microbiome
15:23 A Healthy Microbiome
20:51 Diversity & Inflammation
28:21 Studying Diet & Microbiome
46:10 Fermented Foods & Live Cultures
51:56 Results of the Study
1:08:15 Supplements vs Fermented Foods
1:12:32 High Fibre Diets
1:21:08 Microbiome Tests
1:25:06 Key Takeaways
1:30:04 Outro

Resources:

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[cadupradoo]

I've been wondering if steaming my tempeh or cooking it was making me lose the fermented benefits, but you guys went directly to the point @ 48:00. There aren't the same fermented benefits as a live culture to begin with. Thanks for all the knowledge. I've said it before, but your work made me switch careers and go into nutrition in college next year after one and half decade in engineering! Thanks for the inspiration!

[jonathanberry]

🎯 Key points for quick navigation:

01:11 *🦠 The discussion begins with an exploration of a study on how fiber and fermented foods influence the microbiome and inflammation markers.*
- Fiber and fermented foods can modulate the immune system through the microbiome.
- Key takeaway: The study offers actionable insights into improving gut health and reducing inflammation through dietary choices.
03:25 *🍞 Dr. Sonnenburg discusses his journey into studying glycobiology and the gut microbiota.*
- Glycobiology involves studying sugars that coat cell surfaces, influencing microbe interactions.
- The gut microbiota plays crucial roles beyond digestion, affecting overall gut health and immune responses.
06:23 *🧫 Defining microbiome vs. microbiota and the technological advancements driving research.*
- Microbiome refers to the collective genes and genomes of microbes, while microbiota refers to the actual microbial communities.
- Technological advancements in sequencing have revolutionized our understanding of the microbiome's role in health and disease.
11:23 *🧬 Exploring the microbiome's impact on chronic diseases and genetic predisposition.*
- The microbiome's diversity and composition can influence susceptibility to chronic diseases.
- Changes in the microbiome due to industrialization and lifestyle shifts may contribute to health vulnerabilities.
15:27 *🌱 Characteristics of a healthy microbiome and factors contributing to dysbiosis.*
- Defining a healthy microbiome remains complex, with diversity being a key factor.
- Dysbiosis, or microbial imbalance, can lead to inflammation and contribute to various chronic diseases.
20:15 *🌍 Microbiome diversity and insights from traditional populations like the Hadza.*
- Traditional lifestyles may host microbiomes more in sync with human evolution.
- Studying diverse microbiomes offers insights into health but requires ethical considerations in research practices.
23:57 *🦠 Gut microbiome's impact on systemic health*
- Gut microbes can influence immune responses and inflammation throughout the body.
28:18 *🌱 Diet as a lever for microbiome modulation*
- Diet is a powerful tool to alter the gut microbiome composition and function.
- Understanding these changes could lead to personalized dietary recommendations.
35:18 *🥦 Study design and methodology of fiber and fermented food intervention*
- The study aimed to compare the effects of high fiber vs. fermented food diets on gut microbiome and health markers.
- Participants were assigned diets rich in either fiber or fermented foods, with a focus on daily intake and duration of intervention.
46:12 *🥒 Understanding Fermented Foods*
- Fermented foods are defined as those transformed by microbial activity and containing live microbes, such as kombucha, kefir, sauerkraut, and kimchi.
- There's confusion between pickled foods and fermented foods; pickles with added vinegar don't qualify as fermented in this context.
- Labels can be misleading, with some products claiming live microbes but actually using spore-forming microbes after canning.
51:31 *🦠 Results of Fermented Food Intervention*
- The study showed that consuming fermented foods led to increased gut microbiome diversity and reduced inflammation markers.
- Yogurt and fermented vegetable brine drinks (like gut shots) showed the most significant impact on microbiome diversity.
- The results were unexpected, as the fermented foods group, not the high fiber group, showed the hypothesized positive effects on inflammation.
01:01:26 *🍶 Mechanisms and Specific Fermented Foods*
- Not all fermented foods have the same impact on health; yogurt and lactic acid-rich products had a pronounced effect on gut microbiome diversity.
- The study raised questions about why fermented foods reduce inflammation, prompting further mechanistic research.
- Human studies followed by reverse translation to animal models are considered a powerful approach in microbiome research.
01:08:50 *🥦 Fermented foods and probiotics*
- Fermented foods from diverse cultures offer various health benefits beyond store-bought options.
- Probiotic supplements lack standardized doses and may not deliver live bacteria as expected.
- Experimenting with homemade fermented foods can cater to personal taste preferences and potentially enhance gut health.
01:12:30 *🌾 Impact of fiber on gut microbiome diversity*
- High fiber diets did not uniformly increase gut microbiome diversity in all individuals.
- Individuals with lower baseline microbiome diversity may struggle to metabolize dietary fiber effectively.
- Long-term dietary changes, including slowly increasing fiber intake, may support microbiome adaptation and health benefits.
01:21:10 *🧪 Microbiome testing and dietary advice*
- Single-point microbiome tests may not accurately reflect microbiome dynamics, which can vary day-to-day.
- Commercial microbiome testing varies in reliability; consumers should choose companies with scientific credibility.
- Personalized dietary recommendations based on microbiome data are not yet fully supported by scientific evidence.

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[natures_child]

Thank you Simon for another fascinating interview. I could listen to Christopher and Justin
all day long. The more I learn about the gut microbiome the more I want to know. I suffer from histamine intolerance so have to limit fermented food, but I have just made my own homemade kimchi and plan to eat a small amount several times a week in the hope that I can tolerate it. Please keep on sharing the knowledge :)

[mamakaka]

I have high blood pressure and I started eating fermented foods one month ago. Even with the high sodium of sourkraut and other fermented veggies, my blood pressure has gone down without medication. I don't think - fir me at least - the salt affected anything.

[smilebot]

i can't believe i missed this one when it came out. we started doing a lot of fermenting a decade ago but because of all the sodium we backed off. now we're getting into kombucha fermentation based on your shows. definitely noticing better gut health already. the crazy thing is we eat a very plant heavy vegan diet with tons of sprouts and a big diversity of plant fibers but even so i was still having some gut issues. so i believe i need some fermented foods like kombucha.

[KM-pokk]

This is what the ancestral diet community has been talking about the entire time!

[plantbasedsaver]

One of my favorite episodes among so many other great ones!!! :)

[brigitadominis]

Excellent interviews Prof Gardener and Prof Sonnenberg life changing I 😊

[aeonikus]

great podcast, very informative, thanks for your work.

[Ross]

Very interesting. And great questions from you, Simon.

[jamiebbooks]

I was thinking fermented food was a rather limited list of options, but I'd forgotten about cheeses. My fridge already has good blue cheese, swiss, gouda and aged cheddar, so now eating multiple servings of food with active bacteria is much easier.

[CathiBarber-rb]

Advice for those with histamine intolerance?

[kiwiwriter]

Identifying specific cultivable fibre fermenting microbes would be huge. Hope you have a follow up with Christopher & Justin their ideas are to the point.

[deel]

What is considered a portion though? There's lots of talk that we should consume 4 portions of fermented food per day but what constitutes a portion?

EDIT: I will come back and edit this again and include the timestamp where the detail how to calculate portion size from daily calorie consumption.

[MrOldSkoolMan]

I'm definitely struggling big time with bloating since going WFPB. I eat lots of beans & lentils (and fruit) & while I know they are the biggest causes, it leaves me wondering if I should return to eggs & dairy. I know protein is likely over emphasised but nonetheless, without the inclusion of beans, I will not be able to sustain this dietary lifestyle. I'm not vegan because I do eat a little fish about 3 times per week - the reason being for b12 & omega 3s. Yes, I do have some nuts & seeds but I use those for nutrients only because they certainly are not satiating for me.

Hoping my gut will adjust, otherwise it's game over! Note: I did do a drastic u-turn having come from keto & even a stint on carnivore. I know I should have transitioned slowly as I would have lacked the microbes to deal with starch & fibre but I'm one of those who goes in head first 😂. Been bloated for 7-8 weeks now but will hang on a bit longer & hope that my microbes will increase & adapt.

[nikola]

What about miso paste? Does that count as fermented food?

[N]

Are certain fermented foods better than other? Yogurt is cheapest around me, but I’m wondering if kefir or others have more colonies or strains, assuming those conditions would produce more health benefits
Basically I’m wondering if eating plain Greek yogurt is good enough haha

Edit: just listened to the bit at 1:00:00 and that suggests yogurt is one of the ‘better’ foods

Love the podcast!! I really like how you ask specific questions and visualize the process!

Personal note: some people don’t have the microbiota that works well with fiber, it can actually cause more inflammation. Theorized they don’t have the microbiota to break down the fiber. So maybe introduced fermented foods first, and then more fiber?

[jaxnaturals]

Trying to find some information on sibo. You know of a good reputable podcast or do you have an episode on this?

[jeffreywp]

Would love if they released a list of true fermented products, particularly plant-based options. Knowing which products are truly beneficial and which were “artificial” and not as beneficial.

[jaymills]

So if you’re reactive to fiber and fermented food due to low diversity how do you rectify thay