Explained : Universal Basic Income | Aaron Bastani Meets Will Stronge

Most peoples lives are defined by the exchange of labour for a wage - but what if they weren't? What if the state gave us a regular wage with zero strings attached, to spend as we wish? Proponents of this idea call it 'Universal Basic Income'.

Aaron is joined by Will Stronge, Director of Research at Autonomy - a think tank dedicated to rethinking the fundamental stories we tell ourselves about work.

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[JonotJoe]

Fascinating interview 👏 I am disabled and can honestly say I have been made to feel demeaned, humiliated, a scrounger, fearful and even guilty for my situation. UBI would mean no other disabled person suffering the same way.

[ericaceous]

I dropped my working days from five to three (taking a pay cut) at the start of the pandemic.
In the time since
- I've seen my family and particularly my young nephews much more - once or twice a week rather than twice a month
- I've picked up photography as a hobby, and used my skills to photograph several of my friend's weddings for free as a wedding present (they were unable to afford professional photographers)
- I've set up a small video digitisation business
- I've taken up gardening and completed several DIY projects around the house
- I've joined the gym, and go there three times a week
- I've recontacted old friends and have regular hangouts and meetups
- I've become more politically and socially aware

And I do all this while feeling happy, healthy and energised.
Roll on UBI, roll on the 4 day week. Excessive drinking, unhealthy eating, passive consumption, these are all things that transpire from being mentally and physically exhausted by work. People want to do things and improve their lives - it's just that work saps our energy to do so

If I had UBI - I'd probably retrain into a trade or digital skill. Or throw myself into professional photography

[PeppermintPatties]

Disabled people have to prove and re-prove our disabilities to get benefits. It's cruel and demeaning. In fact, anyone that's from a marginalised group. A UBI would help restore dignity and inclusion to everyone. There are 14 million disabled people in the UK. Half the population are women. Work isn't paying people enough anyway. Tons of work is in bullsh*t jobs. Let's get past this idea that wealth and hard work are virtuous and emancipate everyone. The whole population would benefit. Humans aren't ants. We can self-actualise, and we should.

[Matt-voge]

We already have UBI for asset owners and the rich anyway.

[Cheebasonic]

The creative arts would level the playing field more …..back in the days when youth could survive on dole money …it resulted in so many working class musicians and artists emerging to then go on to international success and many generating money for the economy as a whole. Today, more and more bands and artist are from privileged backgrounds because they have that help/ safety net. Same with internships favouring people from wealthy families …

[KatharineOsborne]

I lost my job a few weeks ago and the prospect of looking for something in the same industry is so discouraging because I’m burnt out on it. I would give a kidney to be able to go back to school and try something else. UBI would go a long way to resolving the mental health crisis, if we are not all scrambling to make rent and bills or worried about losing income when sick (and bonus, we can walk when employers are nasty).

[nikki_rush]

I know this woukd help a lot of disabled people who have been consigned to poverty by 13 years of Tory rule.

[lohphat]

It won't work unless there are price caps on basic needs like food, housing, and healthcare.

But as corporations inject themselves as rent-seeking monopolists, they'll just soak up any basic income given by price hikes to bleed people dry.

Anti-trust legislation MUST be enforced.

[BobCratchit-]

UBI would give employees enough security to have bargaining power, Why take a crummy job for say £7.25 an hour when you have a guaranteed £1600 a month to fall back on? UBI would end the scourge of low pay on poverty wages.

[hifyx]

isn't Will Stronge the guy that went on goodmorning Britain (or some equally crap show) and was given absolutly no chance to explain anything because one person just kept saying "BUT WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM!?!?!!!?!". Nice to see him actually get to talk.

[philipdavies]

There has already been a UBI scheme in Wales for care leavers for a while now all the results thus far have been extremely positive. I suggest talking to UBICymru about this for a future Novara feature.

[Maeveella]

Omg yes this is the interview I was waiting for!!!! UBI all the waaayyyy

[gracekasozi]

Ubi would eradicate poverty in this country, this is the next obvious & logical step in this country, this is the best way to put peoples wellbeing at the top of the list

[moeezS]

Unlearning Economics' "Free Stuff Is Good Actually" video essay was quite useful to get me understanding the benefits of UBI. UBI would help so many segments of the population. Having worked with disabled, mentally ill, pregnant, career break, raising family, unemployed, and more kinds of people in my work, who've had to deal with means tested benefits like PIP, DLA, UC (that are taken away once you earn an income), who are just getting enough to barely survive but not enough to thrive or pursue their dream/passion jobs, give back to the economy, would be helped a lot. In these tests in Kenya, Canada, some US states, it appears to pay for itself. This is the sustainable, productive future.

[kellyheighway]

When is this UBI going to start for everybody else? With this living crisis needs this now!

[rontocknell]

bearing in mind that money is only an intellectual idea, our entire economical model needs to acknowledge that money itself is not a resource but just a form of admin. Ask yourself: what is an inch? It is a 'measurement'. It is not the thing you are measuring. It is simply a name we made up for a universal unit of distance. It does not exist as a thing. We don't have to save up inches so we can afford to measure big things. It's just an idea... a measurement. So is money.
The only way we can obtain food, shelter, clothing, fuel for cooking and heating etc. is by using money and the only way we can obtain money is either by working or relying on state welfare. With a basic universal credit to cover the necessities such as rent, food, utilities, the choice is then whether to work to pay for the things we want. Everybody wants more than the absolute basics to maintain life so the vast majority would be happy to work for the things they enjoy. With the imperative to use what you earn in order to live out of the equation, it doesn't matter too much how much (or how little) you earn. Workplaces would be happier because nobody HAS to be there. It would mean that employers would have to invest in making workplaces more attractive but then they'd be saving because wages don't have to cover the basic costs of living as well. So wages would be generally lower but so would the demands on wages. It's just a matter of reshuffling our ideas about money... which, in itself, is nothing more than an idea.

[drew]

I think £1600 isn't living in luxury. Looking at rents going up and up. After a while most people will want more and eventually find a decent job or even start a business. Yes some will stay on it, but most will only use it temporarily when they are in a situation. I'm all for this.

[robertwinslade]

Really hope I see UBI and 4 day work week implemented within my lifetime; both would be game changing

[alancornes]

I’m a guy and I was a carer to both of my parents for over 15 years. Just saying Aaron.

[operationgoldfish]

Anthropological studies indicate that individuals in hunter gatherer societies 'work' on average about 23 hours per week. A lot of this 'work' being things like fetching water or gathering fruit, which are not that strenuous and are social activities. This is the type of lifestyle our bodies are evolved for. The stress and effort of modern work can be horribly destructive and impact hugely on our quality of life.

The problem is that we equate work with money, which places a false 'worth' on time spent 'working' and creates a false concept of 'worthy' work. The Conservatives are full of his shit; devaluing the Arts and insisting that everything must be productive. Whereas we are evolved to be members of smallish communities, where everyone contributes and there's none of this false assessment of a member's worth. Everyone puts their time in to meet broader needs but an individual might be just as valued for their ability to sing or make people laugh as they are for their ability to create excessive numbers of _things._ The idea of a UBI helps adjust the balance back to nature in this respect.

I'm a (aging) nurse and, a few years back, I accessed some of my pensions and transitioned to a two day week. For those two days, I advise people on recovery from heart attacks and how to avoid further heart problems. It's very much a talking job and the measurable outcome is a bit abstract but it does reduce re-admissions. In my spare time, I write fiction, which has a small audience, and make stringed instruments, some of which I sell. I wouldn't be able to do either of these if I was working full time. People don't just not work if they have time and a basic income.

The main issue with UBI is who would do the 'nasty' jobs, like sewer management and things like caring? I think the main answer is to make what we can automated - and make certain there are people trained to fix the equipment when it goes wrong - while encouraging the kind of altruism that motivates people to care for others. A lot of things could be achieved by readjusting cultural viewpoints; fostering a caring society should increase the number of individuals with a calling to care, while more free time should allow families the freedom to support their vulnerable members.