Universal Basic Income (UBI)

Wouldn't it be amazing if the government just gave you money every month, so that you didn't have to worry so much about rent and bills? Well this precise arrangement has been discussed among economists for centuries. It's called Universal Basic Income, and some political figures and presidential candidates have made this a big part of their platform. How does it work? What are the pros and cons of UBI? Will it ever come to pass? Let's talk about it!

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[poppyblue]

Where tf people get this idea that UBI may lead to less incentive to work? It's the actual opposite. Not having to worry about being able to afford food, rent, bills, etc. leads to increased creativity, people have less to worry about so they can explore things they truly love and are interested without constantly be thinking of monetizing whatever they're doing or even doing things they don't like just for money. THAT is what leads to innovation. Nobody truly likes doing nothing all day. Now if you mean "work" as having a pool of slaves competing with each other for a shitty paid position at a monopoly, that's a different thing. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I started studying programming not because I like programming but because I'm desperate for a job, I couldn't find anything where I live (third world country with 100% annual inflation rates) and I believed the story of "learn to program in 4 months and start earning 2k dollars a month (yeah, that's A LOT for us), all from the comfort of your house!". No need to say that it was all bullshit and I'm still unemployed but now I also have a 4k debt. Why did I do this? Financial anxiety. But it didn't come out well, obviously, because I wasn't actually doing it because I enjoy it. In fact, every time I did something for money came out horribly, while every time I did something because I truly enjoyed it without thinking about money came out great. And another thing that I realized is that all of those managed to create sucessful companies or even get some sort of degree, mid-level position at a large company, made a reasonable career for themselves and stuff like that, either come from a background of money or had some sort of financial aid, so their financial worries were relieved in some way and they could focus on their companies or careers. Having money didn't make them lazy. Personally, I often things how many things I would do/learn/start if I only had the money, there's plenty, but every single f*cking thing costs money, there aren't so many free (and quality) resources on the internet as people believe, at least not anymore, everything is behind a paywall now, and material resources cost money, ofc. So yeah.

[luckymapache]

As the technology advances, workers are been replaced by AI and machines. Either make all basic need free, or apply UBI. That's almost logic path to go.

[bea]

It didn’t work in Finland, they scrapped it after trialling it on 2, 000 people for 2 years. They becamd happier but jobless as no one wanted to work or they couldn't find jobs. Then people won't want do low paid jobs such as supermarkets or fast food or manufacturing. The system will grind to a halt. They will have to pay more money/double the salary to get people ro do low paid jobs. Food prices will go up, rent will go up, fuel will go up as they will have to pay everyone more. Hyper inflation. Covid furlough/stimulous schemes showed how disatrous this was for the economies worldwide who did this. But let's do something similar and it'll be better this time, pinky promise. Oh my lord this is crazy.

[glennpearson]

Great info on UBI! If the Federal government handles this like it does so many other policies and laws, they'll probably wait for one or more states to try UBI and gauge the outcome before drafting national legislation. Problem is, name a state that has the financial and political wherewithal to try UBI. I think UBI is at least worth experimenting, but I sincerely doubt it'll happen at the national level first. Some state is going to have to take the plunge first. Since you know there is a snowball's chance in hell that this would happen in any Conservative state, you can pretty much bet that if it happens at all, it would likely be in Hawaii, California, Washington, or, possibly, Minnesota.

[DecoyZ]

UBI is the only real way for most people to survive
with automation, economic crashes and the rising housing crisis
giving people the means to actually live a life is the only way.
In a few decades, the average state of living will be so poor even the most "Advanced" 1st world countries will be sent into massive in fighting and even civil wars

Most economists can agree that in this current downward trend
"You are either the ultra rich, or homeless in waiting, there is no more middle class"
even the wealthy classic nuclear white families are struggling, governments refusing to raise wages while automation is taking millions of jobs and AI is replacing even more
pretty soon there will be three outcomes

1. UBI is implemented to slow the decent of society
2. UBI is not implemented and a majority populous of each country becomes poor within 20-30 years
3. UBI is not implemented and the incredibly poor population realises that they're in this shitty situation because of the ultra rich hoarding wealth. And the world goes the french way for a while, getting out the guillotines

[A_Man_Of_Culture_]

Just a reminder for everyone that BungeeGum has the properties of both rubber and gum

[TheseNuts]

It seems inevitable with the progress. Maybe a new form of income will rise.

[nickamodio]

I find it both amusing and worrying that so many people in the comments are talking about this as if we're not on the precipice of an AI revolution. The field of AI research is finally beginning to mature, and it isn't showing any sign of slowing, in fact, the pace of groundbreaking research papers being published is only accelerating. Now, it's almost a weekly occurance and it's nearly impossible to even keep up with all of it.

This next technological revolution is going to cause a far larger paradigm shift than even the industrial revolution. Every aspect of how we live, work, play, etc is going to change as a result of this tech.
The point people are missong it that most of the issues being brought up about UBI simply will not apply in a post-AGI world.
UBI is going to be a necessity if the rich don't want to be eaten by the many tens of millions of people that will be replaced by AI systems. If you think your job is safe, you're almost certainly wrong about that assumption. Remember, the sort of advanced systems we have now, like GPT-4, are sort of like baby AGI's. We all know that this tech will only improve from here. The difference with this tech revolution is the pace is on a completely different scale; it's exponential. AGI is no longer something that experts think is 50-100 years out... current estimations, based on the pace of current improvement in AI and compute power, put this shift more in the months to years range. Most people simply not at all prepared for what's coming down the pipe.

[winggullseagull]

I'm all for it it gives security & peace of mind & the free time to pursue
what you really want to do & achieve in life. Who wants to be a slave to a job they hate ??
Just to merely survive if you're tied down to a 9 to 5 job every day you don't have the freedom to better yourself to live up to your highest potential. Life without purpose & direction sucks & is meaningless & soul destroying.

You should never do a job just for the money & too many people work jobs they don't like or not suited for. If you don't like the job you're in you shouldn't be doing it. use
you're free time to better your situation. So I think this UBI is a good thing that can lead to
a utopian world & reduce & end poverty & homelessness.
The world would be a better place if everyone is productive in the right way & happy & content. UBI is a safety net. Capitalism & socialism needs to be balanced so it benefits
everyone.

[roobthenoob]

I think UBI won't work without significant decommodification of necessities. We'd probably get universal SNAP before UBI, which might serve as a model for a decommodification snowball effect leading to UBI.

[lacintag]

I find the cons to be very unconvincing.
1. The criticism that UBI would increase wealth inequality because people would spend more which would go to already wealthy capitalists is true for literally all income in a "trickle down" system, not just UBI. The solution is to make the source of the UBI funds come from said wealthy people.
2. There's no reason why certain directed programs would be cancelled because UBI was implemented.
3. The expense argument is the only valid one, but it's not an insurmountable obstacle, and I think it's well worth it.
4. The incentive to work thing has been debunked in all studies. The only people who work less with UBI are mothers of young children and students, and only because it gave them the freedom to focus on their children/education.
5. Inflation is another valid one, but I think it's worth it. Especially when UBI also encourages more business growth and thus more supply to counteract the bigger demand.

[bhante]

Currently in Ireland we are some 16 months in to a three year trial where UBI is given to artists/actors/musicians. Those who meet the criteria as a working "artist" receive €325 weekly for materials, training, basic needs etc. The trial will end in 2025 and then an assessment will be made as to whether or not it can be rolled out at a larger scale to every adult in the nation. One study proposed that it could reduce the cost to the exchequer by 52%. While it will illuminate social welfare, it will also make many of those who work in that sector redundant further easing costs on the tax pool. For anyone in need of extra money like a single, despite being unable to work, say for health reasons there is expected to be a process in which they can apply for extra funding and it be granted provided they are deemed eligible for extra assistance.
I do find it ironic that introducing funds to half the social welfare costs, will make many many people redundant, however if the figures are correct at 52% savings, it seems like a no brainer. With that said, there are some in the country who are incredibly weary of UBI and see it either as the foundations to communism, or a form of government dependency and entrapment.

[Owen_loves_Butters]

I feel like it's worth noting that while UBI may lead to less incentive to work, it'll certainly be much better in that regard than our current welfare systems. If you get a high enough paying job, your welfare is cut, and your total income barely increases (sometimes, due to taxes and extra expenses, it actually decreases). A UBI can never be cut, so any extra income would supplement the benefit.

[alexwood]

I always liked Yang's idea on this, good video Dave!

[neptune]

I don't really get the second criticism of UBI (4:10). Seems dumb. There's no need to get rid of all the targeted support. UBI can go hand in hand with many other social welfare programs. Some of them which are flawed would have to be replaced by UBI but not all.

[lucidity]

you forgot to mention reduced crime as part of your pros as a lot of crime is related to poverty which would be "eliminated" by UBI.
the solution to most of the cons though is to "tax the rich!" it would prevent money from pooling up in their bank accounts thus dealing with the inequality issue, pay for the UBI dealing with the associated costs and inflation somewhat since the system would then be largely cyclical. depending on the tax rate even some money could be taken out of the system increasing the value of the currency.

[brasileiroloko]

I could see ubi working if automation and ai take off.

[KendrixTermina]

It#s obviously not a magic panacea, but every study that tried it found massive benefits.
the reduction in depression & domestic violence alone makes it almost morally imperative.
How many more times do we need to test it?
Anyone who argues that ppl won't work wirthout the threat of starvation has never met a video game modder, fanfic author or hobby astronomer.

[flyingfree]

UBI or negative income tax are the only solutions to a world where AI and robots do most of the work; a world that is quickly approaching.

[Scott_fonz]

Addressing this shows his commitment to the future