How can the Post-1985 DEFUNCT Subway lines be returned to service? | Transit Talk

In this video, we're going to be talking about the post-1985 defunct subway lines. These consist of the 9, H, K, M, V, and the JFK Express lines. How can they be reincorporated into the NYC subway system? Let's talk.

Maps used in this video are courtesy of this website.

0:00 Introduction
0:22 The 9 train
7:43 The H train
10:26 The JFK EXP
12:09 The K train
15:00 The Brown M and V trains
22:56 Ending

[richietattersall]

They FINALLY extended the G in Brooklyn after rebuilding the center 2 tracks. It used to stop at Smith - 9st, now it ends at Church Ave so they can run the F express to Church.

[lordmegatron]

The "F" not being expressed to church is due to local politics. The affluent neighborhood where Bergen is protested that they would be " downgraded" to a local stop. According to the MTA the Bergen express station is in too much disrepair that it would cost too much to fix.

[jorgegaston]

The “C” ran peak hours only. The “K” ran all times except peak hours and nights. It was a former “AA”

[Pigsbeawesome]

A couple things about the H train,
during summers on the weekend it is extended to rockaway blvd
they are thinking of reactivating the abandoned rockaway beach branch and putting service through lower montauk (queens superexpress) or the queens blvd line. While this probably won't happen, it's cool that the MTA is thinking about it and not only us transit nerds lol

[ronhalt]

A few outlandish suggestions:

1. The K runs from Bedford to Canarsie. There are switch tracks at West 4th, Chrystie, and Broadway Jucntion that could make this possible.

Bedford-145 on the D Line.
145-West 4 on the C line
West 4th-Bway-Lafayette on the F line via switch track to 6th.
Bway-Lafayette-Delancey-Essex on the M line via Chrystie St exch.
Delancey-Essex-Bway Jcn on the J line.
Bway-Jcn-Rockaway Pkwy-Canarsie on the L Line via switch track at Bway-Jcn.

2. The 9: have it run local while the 1 does peak express service (or vice versa due to this next suggestion). But extend the 9 to Brooklyn and switch it to the 4/5 line to run express Utica Ave with the 4. The switch could take place somewhere between Borough Hall Sta. and Atlantic Ave.

3. The Brown M: The J and M took over the N and R lines when they were incapacitated by the damage of its Cortlandt St Station just after the 2001 attack. Why not have the J shadow the R and the M shadow the N?

Outlandish Ideas that would cost billions:

4. Build the Utica Ave extension, and let the V train service it, terminating at 2nd Ave Station.

5. The H: Restore the track between on the Far Rockaway Branch and connect it to the Qns. Blvd line at 63rd Drive and have it terminating at Woodhaven Blvd. Build a track loop past Woodhaven Blvd under the QB ROW so it could turn around and return to Far Rockaway.

[nyceyes]

I was born and raised in Manhattan on 125th and Amsterdam Ave, so I used either the 1 train (on 125th & Broadway) or the A and D trains (on 125th & 8th Ave). The A, D express from 125th St. to 59th St. (Columbus Circle) was great. When I went to High School in Brooklyn, that one express jump saved me a lot of time over three years. 🎉

I should also mention that the 9 train wasn't around all that long. I remember when it was introduced, thinking that it didn't make sense because there's "effectively" only one track for both the 1 and 9 trains (because of track switch and station arrangements). So the 9 train didn't last very long.

Nice video by the way. 🤗 I was very well explained. Bravo.

[Icyleo]

I really loved the brown M on the west end line! My dad used to ride the M from bay parkway to his work since 2009, I don't even remember if I rode on the M since 2009 because I was only 2 years old that time, I also live near the D and N trains and will always remember the M with the D train!

[spyfoxes_]

There actually was an 8 train, it was the 3 av shuttle in the bronx and it would run alongside the 2 and the 5 up until gun hill road.

[KCIRProjaM]

The K (formerly AA) existed because at one point, the C (from Broad Channel to the Bronx) was a rush hour only route alongside the rush hour B between Columbus Circle and 145th Street. When they finally came to their senses and made the C an everyday route from 168th to Euclid & rerouted the B to 145th St/the Bronx, there was no need for the K anymore.

The brown M ran as a shuttle from Middle Village to Myrtle Av on weekends

Hope that helps.

[RXVBK]

"Take the train to plane--the train to the plane..." I remember that commercial when I was a kid! lol

[Preziwalt]

Ever since coming to NYC I’ve been fascinated by the subway! I appreciate knowing this bit of history … thanks for sharing

[KENNECTED]

The Airport line was strictly for business riders as you paid an extra fare ON BOARD the train. The riders were for people who wanted to get to downtown BK, Wall Street and Midtown without many stops.

The M train is one of the original elevated lines. I ran from Mid. village down Myrtle to downtown BK. The Brown M to brooklyn can happen any time they want. The connection from the Willie B bridge to 6th Avenue would remain. It's been there and unused for many years.

A local train starting at Columbus Circle or 6th Ave/57th street over the F line to Kings Highway would be great. The local (terminal KH) & G train (terminal Church St.) could could handle service to Kings Highway. The express from Jay St - (perhaps Bergen lower level) - 7th Ave- Church- Kings Highway.

[thisman]

Gonna be a long reply, bear with me lol. Great video BTW

-Skip-stop is more for passenger distribution, rather than a traditional "express". The 9 was useless simply because there was so few stops actually skipped, and all of those stations have pretty heavy ridership. All of them former 9 trains simply became extra 1 trains. It works on the J/Z because there's more stops skipped.

-The frequency for the A branches doubles after Rockaway Blvd. A 7 minute wait at a station like Jay St is a 14 minute wait at like 111 St or Broad Channel.

-The JFK Express is dead forever lol. That train was mostly used by Howard Beach residents to avoid the riff-raff, and paid the extra fare.

-The K was just fodder. It would be super useless now.

-The M/V combo was probably the best thing they've ever done. The V was empty more often than not, and was nothing more than extra 53 St service. 2 Av was a convenient terminal for it. The old M was used in Brooklyn just because it was there. Most of the time you would be the only person in the car from Bay Pkwy all the way to Atlantic

[Shaythegay]

As someone who isn’t native to nyc and moved here only a few years ago, this is some fascinating stuff! I used to live at the Seneca Ave M stop and I didn’t know that the M used to go with the J and Z lines and then continue into Brooklyn with the D line! This makes so much more sense than its current wonky route

[NativeNYker]

New to the channel! Born and raised in NYC (although I currently call the west coast home). For those that might be too young to remember, the JFK Express or the "Train to the Plane" as it was called back in the day was actually marketed by MTA as a premium service. You paid your fare at the turnstile and then boarded those trains (usually with all your luggage in tow) and paid an additional fare which was dropped into a collection box similar to what they used on the buses back in the day. Only certain doors on certain cars would open (usually the last of the four cars which also housed a conductor who would collect additional fares). As I recall, most riders on this line were folks from out-of-town who thought it was a quick and convenient way to get from midtown to the airport or vice versa. Locals from my neighborhood (in Brooklyn) either used gypsy cabs or took the bus to JFK.

It was also nice to learn about lines MTA put into service after I left NYC for graduate school on the west coast. Namely, the H, K, and V lines. I had no idea that they discontinued the M. Thanks so much for sharing. Looking forward to whatever else is yet to come on this channel...

[michaelsteinberg]

Thanks for clarifying this. You solved a mystery I had wondered about from time to time over the last 25 years. Before I lived in NYC, I visited my dad one summer. I saw a K train sign at canal street. It was 1995. I couldn’t find it on any map. We asked a few MTA employees and a police officer about it, but no one had ever heard of the K train.

[sopaman]

Back in the mid 1970's the E train ran on the C line From 179 St. . to Euclid Ave.. I believe the C train was shuttle train that ran somewhere in Queens on the Far Rockaway A line..

[lil]

The lirr to the AirTrain is now considered the “JFK” express. The JFK express ceased operations before the AirTrain even existed so getting from Jamaica to JFK took much longer since you had to take a bus. You also had to take a bus from the JFK express train to the Airport as well but a much smaller route.

[Catnip]

There were two "8" trains in the NYC Subway System.

The first one was on the Astoria Line which terminated at Ditmars Blvd. The 8 was an extension of the Queensboro Line which is now part of the 7 line. The 8 ran along the Queensboro line. And it terminated on the other side of the Steinway tunnel at Grand Central Terminal. Service between Astoria and Manhattan ran between 1917 - 1949.

The second 8 train ran exclusively in the Bronx along the 3rd Avenue line. This 8 was a relatively short line. It ran between the 3rd Avenue Station, ran all along 3rd Avenue and terminated at the Chrystie Street Connection. Sadly, this 8 train was short lived. It ran for only six years between 1967 - 1973, when it was replaced by the Bx55 Bus line and then later by the Bx15.

[johnlewis]

They need to bring some of these lines back and build new railroads for them. Where I live is a train desert. We have no trains in our area and we have to take a bus to any train. They should restore some of these old train lines and build routes for them in areas where there are no commercial. Near where I live there is a freight train railroad on Utica Ave that is almost never used. They should use these abandoned freight railroads for some of the defunct train lines.