Kung Fu vs Aikido - Real Sparring

Aikido vs Kung Fu sparring finally happened as I challenged a Kung Fu master to a fight.

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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey YouTube channel!

My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.

Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.

After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my YouTube channel called "Martial Arts Journey".

Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.

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Check the video "Aikido vs MMA" which started this whole Martial Arts Journey:

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#kungfu #aikido #martialarts

[stevenscholl]

I studied kungfu while living and working in China. I spent a weekend training at a school at the actual Shaolin Temple. The sifu asked me, when I signed up, if I was there to learn how to fight. If I was, he said, he suggested I was in the wrong place because kungfu was about maximizing mental and physical health, and fighting is the opposite of that.

[suryadihardjagilbert]

What I understand from my Sanda coach is this: It's not so much that martial artists directly copy animal movements. Instead, what likely happens is this:
First, monks and fighters develop specific combat styles, focusing on different things like powerful strikes, clinches, or evasion, etc.
Second, To make these techniques easier to explain, they use animal movements as comparisons. It's like how in English, we might say something dramatic like "His kick could've sliced me in half!" Mandarin speaker prefer to use metaphors, like "his punches are as fast as a snake bite, " to emphasize a point. This linguistic difference naturally gave rise to the idea of "animal style."

So, rather than animals being the main inspiration, these movements are more like handy metaphors that help illustrate the fighting techniques.

[alexanderren]

Coming from a karate background, I have to say I’ve been very pleasantly surprised to learn that 75%, or more, of the techniques I’ve been practicing in kata for 20 years aren’t actually strikes but are stand up wrestling and takedowns.

I have a feeling that most of the movements in these animal forms are actually supposed to be for grappling and throws, sweeps, and takedowns rather than strikes.

[mathewpercy]

I hate to be that guy but I think the experiment would have been more beneficial if you guys sparred at 70%-80% One round fairly hard would have yielded better and more honest results.

Great video rokas

[hypnoticskull]

Watching kickboxing being used in an Aikido gi looks awesome

[joelhusbands]

big frame kung fu is practiced in form in order to develop speed, power, flexibility and extend the range of motion. It is essentially an exercise hence the reason the gentleman got burned out attempting to use said movements in sparring.

Big frame was a common method of training especially in many of the longfist styles since they were developed alongside melee weapon training such as sword, spear, staff etc. however In most traditional schools with complete knowledge of what they are practicing, the big frame movements are eventually compacted in order to develop skill at fighting at closer range as well as developing chin na (joint lock skills) and San shou kuai jiao ( fast wrestling skills).

Yes most traditional Chinese martial arts did not evolve to the realm of standardized combat sport (hence the governments recognition for the need for sanda in creating contemporary wushu) however it is important to point out that the traditional arts were not so unevolved that they did not contain the basic ingredients of striking, wrestling and seizing the joints.

It is the training methods in many schools that veered more towards form, conditioning exercises, partner exercises and as you rightly pointed out less towards pressure testing that stunted the evolution of these traditional arts.

[joeysingingchannel]

I would hesitate to come to a conclusion off of one sparring round with one kung fu practitioner. There are so many different styles and they aren't all exaggerated.

[victorvigorous]

sparring is key, as someone who has practiced chinese martial arts for a long time I can say confidently that the Kung FU schools that spar and modify their techniques are often far superior in practical application and fighting as opposed to the schools that don't. The way techniques look in the forms aren't the way they should look during sparring. In the forms they are big grand movements in sparring they are supposed to be scaled down. The movements are supposed to be smaller and more direct. Another thing is a lot of techniques that are perceived as striking are actually grappling. At the end of the day pressure testing is key, it is the only way to see what works best for an individual. I also feel that no matter what style you come from you gotta make it your own, you shouldn't fight exactly like you're Sifu/Sensei of coach. I like your content, cant wait to see the next self defense championship

[JxBx]

Those AI videos are going to give me nightmares

[astonprice-lockhart]

I'll just say this. The grappling/wrestling aspects of Chinese martial arts are rarely explored. It's like far too many people forget that chinese wrestling (shuai jiao) and fast take down wrestling (kuai jiao) are parts of chinese martial arts. Chin na and various joint locking techniques work best in clinching situations because well you are CLOSE to each other. I still don't understand for the life of me why people still believe sanshou/sanda isn't chinese martial arts. Oh well, an issue I'd have to learn to let go of.

[MegaMikand]

When I did Kyokushin they were very clear on this: The low stances, the wide swings when learning the form for techniques as well as Kata was all for conditioning. Exaggerated movements that were designed to tire you out so that you could practice technique while also basically doing cardio and light strength training. Then they would show us what the application of the technique looked like and how you would use it in sparring. Which was usually a much smaller movement and much more functional. And very similar to what you'd learn in kickboxing or other less traditional styles.

I have a feeling that a lot of traditional arts had this approach when equipment for strength and conditioning was less widely available and the whole thing not quite as well understood. The pressure testing would then be done in confrontations outside of training. That part is no longer as prevalent and styles that never had that as a part of the training and didn't adopt it as times changed have lost any reality checks on what they're teaching when it comes to how effective it is in an actual fight.

Someone more familiar with kung-fu can probably correct me, by my understanding is that at least in Shaolin kung-fu, San Shou is their sparring and application of kung-fu. And it pretty much looks like kickboxing. Don't know how old that practice is though, or if I got it right? That's at least what the local shaolin temple representative has put up on the website for our local temple.

[nawaMLG]

I'm a young Shaolin Kung Fu teacher, and that's my thought about Kung Fu effectiveness :

Kung Fu, especially Shaolin one is a very very large martial arts. I use to say "it's impossible to learn everything in this martial art". So every practitioner find his way into this. For many, this is only taolus or weapon training or fitness or cultural experience or combat sport (sanda).

Shaolin Kung Fu is not codified at all (yes a bit now, but nevermind) like karate or others martial arts. Yes there are forms which have names and you can find it in every Shaolin school, but they are not unified it's like every practitioner has his own version of the same form. You can search a form on YouTube, watch 3 of them, they look like the same, you recognize the form but some move are a bit different or completely different. When I studied Shaolin in China, the same school, the same form, two instructors different moves.

In this mess, my thought is Kung Fu is a personal way. It take me a lot of time and research to find a correct use of a move, but I fond in that many very interesting techniques that I teach.

I love your content and me too I'm in the same approach to make fonctionnal kung fu by training a lot in sanda, a bit in shuai jiao and recently in bjj.

In my approach when you learn forms you first has to master positioning and body mechanics, then when you master it you always have to get the application in mind.

This results in when you applying the technique it becomes a second nature even if you transform it a bit to get smaller stances or shorter moves, or different guard. The goal is to keep the principle of the technique and modify the shape for a specific combat situation or a self defense one.

When I spar I use a lot of Shaolin techniques, some of them are very obvious and other looks like classical combat sports moves to an untrained eye.

When I saw the sparring my think is that the kung fu guy use to many wide techniques like you said. In my opinion he should keep the principle of a technique and dont be attached to the shape. When you have to force your mind to use a complicated move instead of a shorter one (in a combat situation) There is a problem.

In conclusion training traditionnal Kung Fu is not the most efficient way to get real combat skills but it's a very rich one.

(Excuse my english, I'm french)

[pekozyn]

NEXT UP: i challenged a silat guru to a fight (make it happen please)

[LunaticReason]

As a long time viewer and commentor who has mentioned kung fu, it was nice to see someone with some Kung Fu knowledge and not just Wushu. My only criticism is the misconception of big telegraphed movements. Its true that its part of the training but you are actually supposed to work beyond that. Its only meant as a training method work big and refine smaller. You are absolutely right about how Kung Fu is today versus how it was back then. I'll admit that even as a practitioner myself. Still gonna do it though alongside more modern styles though.

[ShadowParalyzer]

From the book "The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion, and the Chinese Martial Arts" by Meir Shahar who has a PhD in Asian languages and civilizations from Harvard University, academic, evidence points to the fact that bare-handed Chinese martial arts that we hear about today mainly come from the Ming to Qing transitioning period (17th century).

The Shaolin Monastery, for example, was not famous for bare-handed martial arts during the Ming Dynasty. They were famous for their Staff Method.

A lot of Chinese martial arts are not as old as people think.

[Baso-sama]

good stuff! :) i love the humility both of you display towards eachothers' traditions while also looking for ways to improve them. what i was really disillusioned with while practicing wing tsun, was the general unwillingness of showing respect towards other styles in the community. this is a huge mistake no matter the style, and i'd argue this mentality thwarts growth in all aspects of life, not just martial arts. keep on fighting the good fight!

[camiloiribarren]

When it comes to GOOD traditional schools, it really comes down to training with sparring; change is the name of the game, do the forms and then pressure test them in sparring to expand the applications a lot more in a modern way.

Sort of like Rokas has done with aikido. It’s awesome that you’ve made aikido work out properly in a modern way

[TenguTalks]

Your functional Aikido is fascinating. The school near where I used to live offered something like that, mostly in response to the four MMA gyms that were around it. Ended up being a ton of cross training, but when the takedowns happened, it was amazing to watch.

[danguillou]

As i think back to the Five Animal forms I trained when I was younger, I'm becoming more and more convinced that a lot of them were never intended to do what we were taught that they would do.

For instance: in "Crane Form" we did a lot of movements that looked like pecking at something with the fingertips, often in rotating movements. One junior instructor even said that these were intended as precise strikes against vulnerable points. In hindsight that is obviously nonsense: fingertips are fragile, the necessary precision is beyond humanly possible, and those little pecking movements delivered with lower arm and wrist would not generate any force. Also, there is no video on youtube showing someone actually using fingertip pecking successfully in a fight.
But: in tai chi there is a very similar hand position, only there it is called "holding a lamp" (imagine that you're carrying one of those storm lamps with a ring at the top). Obviously you're not supposed to go into a fight with an antique portable light source dangling from your fingertips, it's a mnemonic device, a funny name for a movement that someone once thought looked a bit like carrying a lamp around: the names for tai chi movements are full of puns and similes.
And yesterday at the bjj practice, our teacher did pretty much the same movement. I think he called it "Oh, I'm going to faint! arms". Forearms up and limp hands dangling down. He said "that's how you defend against the underhook, you trap that arm before it gets in!". Not that weird; tai chi is mostly a standing wrestling art. I think the "carrying a lantern" is the same thing.

So what I think now is that none of the crane form "pecking" movements were ever strikes. They're handfighting drills. You grab your opponents wrist, he rotates around your grip and grabs yours, you grabs his jacket - he counters with a whizzer or overarm, and then you do similar stuff at elbows, at biceps, at neck, and so on and so forth.

When we trained traditional martial arts kungfu, we were taught the forms as if they were a natural sequence of moves you might do to an opponent. Our club had demonstrations that looked like that, and I know a lot of TMA styles have similar demos. But now I think traditional forms are probably more like counting rhymes, a way to list a number of items you should remember to include in the training at some point.

And in this video. My gut feeling is that some of those big rotating telegraphed strikes that doesn't work ... well they might have started out as wrestling and clinch moves too.

[maxhensley]

The idea that kung fu has hardly evolved over time is actually not true at all. Kung fu was very much evolving up until around the time of the Boxer Rebellion, when kung fu decisively lost to firearms as a force in combat. Not only were practitioners creating new styles, synthesizing and testing their skills against each other, practitioners often wrote of newer styles and pedagogy methods being more effective.

That's not to say that there were no problems with the practice of kung fu before then- there was plenty of documented proliferation of woo and fantasism even before the Boxer Rebellion. But it's very much not the case that kung fu has always been too steeped in tradition to undergo continual evolution.