Is There a Fatal Flaw in the Transcendental Argument for God? | w/Dr. Michael Riley - PPP ep. 18

In this episode, Dr. Michael Riley and I discuss Cornelius Van Til's transcendental argument for the existence of God (TAG) and how philosopher Barry Stroud's arguments against transcendental arguments affect Van Til's argument. Now, that all may sound daunting, but Dr. Riley breaks it down for us nicely.

If you like this podcast, then support it on Patreon for $1, $3, or $5 a month. Any amount helps, and for $5 you get a Parker's Pensées sticker and instant access to all the episode as I record them instead of waiting for their release date. Check it out here:

If you want to give a one-time gift, you can give at my Paypal:

[ParkersPensees]

Putting these episodes together takes a lot of research and a ton of time. If you enjoy my high effort philosophy and theology podcast episodes, consider supporting me on Patreon:

[manager]

I contend there are many "fatal flaws" in PA and TAG. Let's begin with vague definitions, inaccurate definitions and undefined terms. What does "Christian worldview" mean? What is included is defining "Christian worldview" and what is excluded? What criteria is used to decide those those things? What does "reflecting God's thoughts" mean and how does one distinguish between "X is a reflection of God's thoughts" and "Y is not a reflection of God's thoughts"? We can then move on to their inaccurate understanding of logic, the nature of logic, and what logic can do and what it cannot do, and how logic does things. This is the very short list of PA and TAG massive failures.

[factandsuspicionpodcast]

Has anyone ever become convinced of the existence of the Christian God due to the Transcendental Argument?

In my experience, it just confuses the average person and is rejected out of hand by those with a background in Philosophy.

Even if it's true, I'm not sure how effective it is.

[kevinfancher]

What came first, humans recognizing that some ways of behaving in the world work better than others, Christianity, or the egg? I'll give you this first one, it was the egg.

[kevinfancher]

'Assuming something is true' IS the weakness! Thank you very much. That didn't take long at all.

[lucianmacandrew]

In TAG, logic is treated as basically godly. But it is just a system that we humans have set up based on what we observe in the physical world,

Logic as a whole has a fatal flaw on top of that. Many physicists today theorize that there are 11 dimensions. This means that when we make a choice, we actually both make it and don't make it. We live in a 3D reality, able to "feel" the 4th dimension (duration). But if we were 5th dimensional beings, we would see both us making and not making a choice. Just because we don't feel or see the version of us that made a different choice than ourself, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And if that is true, the basic laws of logic are out the window.

[michaell]

We do have a certain argument for the existence of God. See Stephen Parrish's work.

[ericwatts]

This was a real treat. Thanks. I'm not super read on Van Til. Could you recommend a good starting book for him? I've already got Stroud's Engagement and Metaphysical Dissatisfaction.

I love his argument that you've pointed out--it's quite problematic for the presupposition camp.

[kevinfancher]

You gentlemen seem to have forgotten a cardinal rule of test taking, that if you don't show your work, you don't get credit. HOW did you get to the conclusion that Christianity is true? Unless and until you show your work, no one should take you seriously, and anything beyond your lack of an explanation is just a waste of time. Grade: F

[kendallburks]

Fascinating to discover the extent to which I’ve been thinking in terms of transcendental arguments without framing it in those terms. Cool!

[hudsontd]

At the end it sounds like you guys are affirming contradictions?

[RickPayton-rd]

Interesting. "If I accept your atheist outlook and the problem of evil, why do I accept your outrage?"
This is a strawman. My feelings about evil and suffering aren't supernatural. I have the brain of a social species. My having sympathy for the suffering of others is an evolutionary advantage.

[EleazarDuprees]

I'm not sure I see an issue here with TAG. It sounds like you are saying we have the subjective problem of our sense perception still- that we can't know if our sense perception give us true information about the objective world. But Van Til said that the argument for the existence of God and the argument for the bible as his word are the same. Therefore, the validity of our sense perceptions are founded on scripture. That God put wisdom/logic in us to have dominion over the earth and perceive the information he reveals through creation and therefore our senses have veracity. We will be judged and held accountable for them.

[Agaporis]

I think you guys are really missing something. A belief of the kind we are talking about is something you would sacrifice for. You do have a choice of whether to have that kind of belief for anything. The transcendental argument is simply for defeating logical arguments against transcendental necessities to the said argument by showing the argument against belief is incoherent. Not that there can’t be a coherent argument only that this one is not

[mendez]

Of all the things that still astound me, is that theists (using TA or others) think they can work it out on the issue of morality, when not only it doesn't make any sense, but because most theists follows the most absurd and contradictory moral traditions of the monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism). It is a God that literary condoned slavery and treated women as positions, and you call it out to be the moral intuitions that are close to good theory of ethics? Amazing...

[markgamache]

Working backwards from the conclusion is always the best pathway to truth.

[BigDrozJoe]

Interesting that when you realized that TAG couldn't get you to God existing, you realized that God was magicking things into your brain. Luckily enough for you, as a presup, the stuff he magicked was exactly what you need to justify your presuppositions. I mean, if he just let you in the Colonel's eleven herbs and spices, you wouldn't be able to pwn the atheists.

[Smwii]

You have to affirm contradictions to reject TAG as an atheist lol.

[israeltrujillo-sba]

your channel is gold man 🔥 do a video on book recommendations

[guitarista]

The first premise of the transcendental argument is a flaw.