The History of Trinitarian Theology - Dr. James White

Dr. James White in his most recent lecture at the Knox Reformed Church gave an historic case for the Trinity.

As against popular opinions and believes, Dr. James proves biblically that the Trinity was not an invention, rather a rooted biblical doctrine which was affirmed by Christ himself.

A very good and detailed lecture on the History of Trinitarian Theology

[S.R.M.]

The doctrine of the Trinity is believed by Christians to be biblical, and those who believe it cite Matthew 28:18-20, or 1 John 5:7, “And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” These verses are the modern-day rendition identifying an interpolation, and so the question must be asked, “Did Christ in fact speak every word found in these verses?” The first Church Historian Eusebius (quotes Matthew 28:19 as it appeared in the early 4th century, Christ said, “Go and make disciples of all nations in My name” (Matthew 28:19, as it was originally quoted, Eusebius, The History of the Church, p. 68, Penguin Classics, 1965). Note, He never said, “...baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.” Which commandment did the disciples hear? It appears the latter quoted by Eusebius from an original manuscript of the NT, for there is no instance of the disciples ever baptizing anyone “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, ” according to the New Testament! On baptisms specifically were done in the name of {YAHSHUA}, Martin Luther notes, “The apostles certainly used this formula in baptizing in the name of Christ only, as we read in the Acts of the Apostles, ’ citing Acts 2:38; 10:48; and 19:5” (Erik H. Herrmann, Paul W. Robinson, The Annotated Luther, Volume 3: Church and Sacraments. Fortress Press. p. 66, 2016). In a documented sermon, Martin Luther made this astonishing statement, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man” (The Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, 1988, p. 406).
The disciples of Christ, in the first two or more centuries, did not know of any doctrine of the Trinity. Historically, “There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the trinity–at any rate from him” (H. G. Wells, The Outline of History, Vol. 2, p. 499, 1920). The so-called Great Commission, as written is an interpolation: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19, the words in italics were added centuries later). The disciples were to make disciples in His name and they were only baptizing in the name of Christ, as the NT gives evidence.
The formula is mentioned in the Didache (7:1-3), and it is mostly accepted as authentic due to its supporting manuscript evidence (Everett Ferguson, Baptism in the Early Church, 2013, pp. 134-5). Nevertheless, some scholars have held the view that the passage in the Didache is an interpolation as it is absent from the first few centuries of early Christian quotations, in which case it is believed it would be part of an apostolic or early Christian oral tradition from which both the received texts of Matthew and the Didache emerged, however, the conclusion is the church only baptized in the name of Christ. The view of the passage as an interpolation was in recent times maintained, and this particular line of opposing arguments by Trinitarians is pure eisegesis, meaning the process of interpreting a text in such a way as to introduce one's presuppositions, agendas, or biases, that artificially supports the Trinitarian formula, and based on interpolated verses added to the New Testament. Catholics and Protestants would agree with Protestant Theologian James White, who writes, “We hang a person’s very salvation upon the acceptance of the doctrine…We must know, understand, and love the Trinity to be fully completely Christian” (The Forgotten Trinity, pp. 14-15). And yet most other scholars know that the Trinity is beyond human understanding, “The mind of man cannot fully understand the mystery of the Trinity. He who has tried to understand the mystery fully will lose his mind, but he who would deny the Trinity will lose his soul” (Harold Lindsell and Charles Woodbridge, A Christian Handbook, pp. 51-52, 1953). Nowhere in the New Testament is believing in the Trinity a prerequisite for one’s salvation. Nowhere in the Bible did the LORD ever reveal Himself as a Trinity, or Triune God. Interpolations exist in the New Testament, which are words added later to prove the Trinity. Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 are proven interpolations, and therefore not of the original Scriptures. 1 John 5:7 is known as “The Johannine comma, ” due to a sequence of extra words in 1 John 5:7-8 which appear in later versions of the Bible, but not in earlier Scriptures. Compare these words below in italics in the KJV and the same verse from the newer ESV.
"For there are three that bear record (witness) in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one" (1 John 5:7-8 KJV).
"For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree" (1 John 5:7-8, ESV).
These extra words are generally absent from the early Greek manuscripts. They only appear in the text in late medieval manuscripts, which were done by Trinitarians to bolster the man-made doctrine of the Trinity. The Trinitarian doctrine only existed since the 4th century! A religion unexamined is not worth having. Besides, most Christians when questioned about the Trinity prove to be Modalists, not Trinitarians (The Forgotten Trinity, p. 16). Christians have given examples of the Trinity, and one is the steam, water, and ice, which is not a good example for it only proves modalism. The Trinity is not so much a mystery as it is the doctrine of confusion, and we know that God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

[bjosephine]

We are taught about the Old Testament and know nothing about our New Testament. We think that the New Testament is what we have. But we don't know that our New Testament is larger and bigger than the Old Testament. Suddenly the Holy Spirit changed my taste and He started giving me questions about what happened to the church. How the Bible came to us? And then I started digging on Youtube, And I enjoyed Catholic teaching because they are masters of the church history. So now I am so hungry for to know church history.

[r.e.jr.]

By history of Trinitarian Theology, I was expecting themes such as "where the word trinity came from?" Also, how did the church fathers arrive at "three persons?" Who were the first people to teach the trinity? I hope you can see that Dr. James White really did not cover the subject well, at all.

[IAmisMaster]

2:40 James White admits his trinity doctrine is a development, and then pretends it was there in the beginning. That’s what happens when you deny the sufficiency of Scripture and the testimony of the ante-nicene church, just like James White.

[tcard]

Get to the point!! He complains that 45 minutes is not enough to time and then he squanders half of it down rabbit trails and silly stories!

[yasaaley]

Common sense will tell us that a person's word is something caused by the person. If caused then the Word is not eternal. Dear brethren, if the Word is not caused by the Father then it is not of the Father. Let us pay heed to what the Lord said about himself and about his relationship with the Father.

[leithanhawk]

Brother James white the one you said the begotten not made/ God from God/ light from light / begotten not made is our apostle Creed worship prayers of one Holy Apostolic Catholic Church." Amen"

[christopherasher]

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
— Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV)

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
— Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)

“Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.”
— Isaiah 12:2 (KJV)

“And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.”
— Isaiah 25:9 (KJV)

“I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”
— Isaiah 43:11 (KJV)

Isaiah 45 (KJV)
²¹ Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
²² Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

“For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.”
— Isaiah 54:5 (KJV)

“Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.”
— Hosea 13:4 (KJV)

Psalms 22 (KJV)
¹⁶ For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
¹⁷ I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
¹⁸ They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”
— Zechariah 12:10 (KJV)

“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
— Micah 5:2 (KJV)

“And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.”
— Luke 1:47 (KJV)

“Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, ”
— Luke 1:68 (KJV)

[TheEmptyeye]

In the first five minutes he admits that the trinity is not divinely revealed in scripture and was developed over time by philosophers and pagans as the gospel spread west into Europe.

Enough said.

[Lostandfoundrecipes-lzmm]

What happened before 325 A.D. the Jews believed in one God the Father, that's it . If you go from this and under stand the only way for a Spirit to become flesh is to follow the course to the birth of the man Jesus born of a virgin and follow the eye witness accounts of the people named in the Bible and not the people named outside the Bible ( 1Peter 1:21 ). The Trinity goes down the toilet . 325 A.D. the only thing you could draw from was the people that were taught by the Apostles, who were burned at the stake or the Nicene council . 1600 + years of the blind leading the blind . The fact there are more Trinitarians than Oneness Pentecostals brings me to this ( Matthew 7:13, 14) and the Holy Spirit has a name take a close look at ( Acts 20:28 ) . If Jesus isn't the Father read ( Matthew 7: 15-23 )

[glenfrazer]

Jesus refers to the Father as his God. In various places. I need read no further scripture to be honest. The Father is Jesus' God, he prays to Him. He taught the disciples to pray to the Father, not to the Father and to Jesus... The proof texts used to argue for the Trinity have sensible counter-explanations. Proven pre-existing themes or types like taking on names, God representation, God manifestation. If you read the scriptures, old and new, with an open heart you will find Jesus is presented as the son of God, and the Father is his God. No mention of a dual nature in the teachings of Jesus to the apostles, nor by the apostles to the early developing church. To make someone God other than the Father is to dice with idolotary. And God is a jealous God.

[billaltier]

The (trinity) is not only a perverse corrupt idle vain word of confusion not found in the book of the LORD, it is a doctrine of devils and a damnable heresy!

Those who believe in the damnable heresy they call (Trinity) find it hard to understand and almost impossible to preach using words found only in the holy scripture.
And yet the preaching of Jesus as the only wise God and Saviour, the blessed and only Potentate, the everlasting Father, the Almighty can be understood by a child.

2 Timothy 3:15-17
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Corinthians 11:3-4
[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Exodus 3:13-14
[13] And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
[14] And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:56-58
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
[57] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Isaiah 45:21-23
[21] Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. [22] Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Philippians 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Job 13:8-10
[8] Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?
[9] Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him?
[10] He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons.

John 14:8-9
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 8:24-27
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
[25] Then said they unto him,

Who art thou?

And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
[26] I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
[27] They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28-29
[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Revelation 1:7-8
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

[approvedofGod]

The historian Dr. Needham points to the "trinity" resting on the shoulders of the Ante-Nicene Fathers. They were the ones that introduced the "trinity" into the Church. They were not popular, nor were they accepted. The majority of Christians were "Monarchian" according to Tertullian. They believed in only one God, who could not be divided. That is why Constantine's participation turned the world upside down with the New State Law and State Religion. All non-Trinitarians were persecuted from that point on. So, it was not the early Church that taught the Trinity! You are lacking much information, thus misleading your listeners.

[dgreenja]

How about historical evidence which support the oneness of the Godhead in Jesus Christ?

Dr. James White, God from God, are two Gods. This is the result of your establishing a divine biological existence of more than one person, where one begets the other. Furthermore, if both person, Father and Son, are eternal in having no beginning, then what makes one the Father and the other the Son?

[AbdulAllaH]

In the beginning was the (WORD) i.e (BE), meaning the (WORD) (BE) GoD uses in the beginning of every creation. And the (WORD) i.e (BE) was with GoD, meaning (BE) is an attribute of GoD. And the (WORD) i.e (BE) was GoD, meaning every attribute of GoD is GoD. In Genesis 1:3 And God said, "Let there (BE) light, " and there was light. Jesus was NOT the (WORD) (BE), but GoD created him with the (WORD) (BE). When they say Jesus proceeded from the father, it means GoD said Jesus (Be) and Jesus became.

[FrMoody]

The nicene creed is an orthodox christian creed. It is odd Dr White speaks so denigrating about orthodoxy. It is incongruous. Secondly, Nicea viewed the creed as not alterable. The Holy Spirit authored the text in the understanding of the Church.

[IAmisMaster]

11:00 Justin Martyr was a true Christian who believed in monarchical trinitarianism in which the One God is the Father and Jesus Christ being a subordinate God by virtue of being a true begotten son of the One God. Nothing about Justin Martyr's theology has anything to do with James White's false teachings. Same goes for Ignatius, Irenaeus, Tertullian, etc.

[leonardobostick]

Me: hey, where did Jesus sit when he went back to heaven?
Trinitian: He sat next God
Me: If you believe Jesus is God you believe Jesus sat next to himself.
Trinitian:Yes
Me:

[VMist-vyqg]

Dr White putting on the pounds again lol

[IAmisMaster]

20:00 Listen to the absolute slippery deception of James White. He reads 1 Corinthians 8:6 in Greek, normally translating what he reads into English, except he doesn't translate "ha pater, " which plainly says the One God is the Father. Maybe because it destroys his Reformed Trinitarian dogma and proves monarchical trinitarianism?