Arcanum's Original Attribute System

I talk about the original design of Arcanum's attributes, why they were changed, and what they became.

[OlStinky]

Never too much Arcanum content out there. The spiritual attributes reminds me of the Riddle or Steel tabletop RPG system quite a bit which had a really interesting take on it.

[Kadwid]

Arcanum was the first game where I genuinely enjoyed thinking about how the char mechanics work, what they represent, and how to plan them out. Thanks for sharing these notes, it's great.

[fredrik]

Yay Arcanum video! Fun to hear about these old design docs. The attributes in Arcanum are great. I like that you cant lower any under 8 unless background or race alters them. The bonus for 20 is a nice addition. The art and design is fantastic for the character sheet and everything costing 1 point is both fun and easy to plan with. Yeah 12 attributes sounds like to many. Im playing Arcanum currently. I do so love that game.

[leinadisjourneys]

Thanks for the Arcanum content! Really appreciate that.

It's interesting to hear that the there were plans for an even more ambitious character system. I've said it before but one reason that I enjoy Arcanum so much is that it was pretty broad in terms of its character system, even if it meant that it wasn't exactly balanced.
Balance is talked about a lot in games and RPGs, and for good reason, but there's always the risk of characters feeling rather samey in many ways because the game is so concerned that it shouldn't be "unfair" to the player. In Arcanum, I just loved the breadth of it, and there's a certain sense of the game letting the player run free and wild a bit, even if it means you could come up with a crappy character so to speak. Frustrating but also very fun.

I also loved that, right from the get-go there's a pretty big split that you have to take into account, that being magic vs tech.

[Wveth]

You've probably heard this a thousand times, but thank you so much for your work on Fallout. The first game remains one of my favourites of all time and it has been an inspiration for my writing, particularly in the sense of how to build a convincing setting that feels real while still integrating some weird and pretty fantastical ideas. The series as a whole is very dear to me and I'm really glad to see content like this, all about the creative process. Instant subscriber here :p

[MSDGAMEZ]

Im playing through Fallout 1 for the first time currently. Im about 5 hours in an wow. The atmosphere is perfect. It makes you feel so small and insignificant at the beginning of the game

[kevinjohnson]

Thanks so much for these Arcanum videos! For me, it was always THE Troika game and one that really stuck with me for my whole life. I know it doesn't get the fanfare of Fallout or even Bloodlines, but I have been waiting semi-patiently for you to drop more Arcanum stories, so I'm happy to finally get it :)

[KubinWielki]

Dear Tim - regardless of how many changes the system has gone through, the final version of Arcanum is close to my heart, and allowed my kid self to come up with the single most busted build you can start with in the game :D
- Half-Ogre;
- Ran away with Circus;
- 2 points in Strength;
- 1 point in Dexterity;
- 2 points in Melee Combat;
- Buy Rapier with starting money;

You start with 20 strength, great accuracy from 2 in melee, and the rapier is fast as hell. Enjoy your terminator build (and you can bring your intelligence up in the first few levels, so you no longer have the stupid dialogue options once you arrive in Shrouded Hills).

[tavernking]

I was the commenter that asked the beauty stat question, thanks!

[WastelandPuppy]

Dear Tim. I love your work and enjoy every minute of you talking about it. Also, spiritual perception is probably "Empathy".

Thank you for everything, both great and small, you are doing for games.

[stinger]

I love all the dev shirts/clothes you have from your history in the industry.

[StavrosNikolaou]

Love the Arcanum content, especially when it is around character systems and mechanics! Thank you once more!

I have so many questions I hope you can answer in a future video regarding attribute systems:

1) The video indicates that at least back then you were thinking even more attributes is better or offers more opportunities. The most recent work in outer worlds indicates a (team?) preference for a smaller number. I know the answer is more of a case by case basis and what the objective of the game is but assuming a chassis similar to Arcanum (with skills and other traits you can sink advancement in) where do you stand with respect to the number of attributes?

2) Attributes linked to skills or independent?

3) Should attributes be able to improve via standard character progression (level ups, character points) or fixed (adjustable only by gear or other special circumstances)?

4) How do you balance attributes? Josh Sawyer gave a really awesome talk on Pillars at GDC but I'm curious on your thoughts about it.

That's all for now. Thank you again for this wonderful content and the awesome games you made.

Cheers

ps: The attributes structure and grouping in Arcanum is exceptional and most RPGs should try and group their attributes 😊

[EiriSanada]

This is an incredibly valuable thing for me to learn from you! Many years back I spent a number of weeks studying Arcanum's stat system and created my own fork of it, trying to address similar issues. But, it got shelved when I realised that making a spiritual successor didn't seem feasible for me. "Who's even interested?" was my thought. But I still think about it every now and then.

[valinypse]

I'm not getting tired of these videos in the close time, great channel!

[AleksReznikov]

I think that balancing the leveling and attributes system is more important for early and middle stages of game. But how fun it is when game mechanics allows you to push to the limits at final stage. Making your character absurdly strong that your enemies fly away when you hit them. It also makes you curious how far can you go with other builds and how the world will respond to this limits. It only lacks that NPCs still treat you as regular adventurer when you are demigod in most of the games.

[ExVersion]

Your channel is truly inspiring, so much good stuff, thank for sharing your experiences with us Tim!

[LeateqOfficial]

Love the consistency of the uploads ! Keep it up

[warrius]

Thanks for your work on all the Games you have made, and for your insights shared with us.

[ki]

Interesting. I was listening to your videos in the background as I fumbled out a stat system for my current project, using mind / body / will as a baseline. Which neatly lines up with the three layers of my world (physical, virtual & psychological). I ended up with only 7 derrived stats / skills but since my entire stat system is based on player action, not points, this works out just fine. There are skill checks against the derrived stats (usually as dialog components or in combat) and the base (in this case: computed from stats) attribs drive what I'd call "player agency" options. So the stat checks are reactive to things the player or others do (i.e. taking damage, dialog replies, access a new dialog tree) while the attribute checks allow the player to initiate actions (propose a plan, take the initiative, open a door, hack something, etc). Due to my entire world & game concept being built on a mind / body / will trifecta the system will most likely stay as it's rather thematic, though obviously a lot of tweaking will be in order. Just found it interesting that I ended up where you started, coming from a wildly different point of origin. My entire concept was: since I have no points to distribute, I need the player to easily intuit which attribute a given action might correspond to, and it's fairly easy to guess what will go to mind, body, or will, making that split ideal for passive character definition and keeping the stats rather low (there are an even 9 stats but mind & will each have an oddly counter-intuitive "temporary" stat that fluctuates wildly in play, each with a unique mechanic - mind is the odd one out since it's dynamic bit is tied to a player action). The result's been a weirdly lopsided but aesthetically pleasing system and the idea came to me while listening to another of your videos on stats. Odd how serendipitous moments like that can be.

Oh, and thank you so much for all your content! It's so insightful and a delight to listen to.

Edit: oh, funny. I was thinking of using a weighted triangle to simplify down character creation / stat assignment to a single click. Well, plus a second to pick a defining trait. But that's all purely conceptual right now. Might not end up with that implementation but... yeah. Funny how similar concepts lead to similar ideas for solutions.

[Anubis]

I'm always fascinated by how different games address stats and skills. From your structured categorized Arcanum system, to the interconnected distribution of Bastard Bonds (not a game for polite company, but does some interesting things mechanically), to specific gameplay mechanics that have been uniquely fitted into the stat system- like Kenshi's toughness stat being an analogue for character level.

Even though it's at the core of the very oldest RPGs, there's still so many interesting ways you can look at it.