Wing Chun Can't Deal With Hooks - Wing Chun vs Boxing

There's an old adage: wing chun can't deal with hooks. This match is another match illustrating that point. We have a Wing Chun representative taking on a boxer in a kickboxing match. It's always fascinating to see trapping fail at fast punch speeds, and it's even more fascinating to see hooks and even upper cuts completely blindside a wing chun person. Let's watch this boxing vs wing chun match and see what else we can learn on our martial arts journey.

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Timecodes:
0:00 Introduction
0:12 Match starts
1:25 Key moment replay

[unmessable]

In theory (not just wing chun theory but what you hear in MMA and boxing gyms) straight punches are supposed to nearly always beat looping punches. Wing chun is often said to be based on this idea, yet its practitioners almost always fail to see it done in a live setting. I think rather than saying wing chun has no answers to hooks, I'd say most wing chun practitioners don't have the experience necessary to defend themselves against or properly intercept/counter their opponents attacks. Which is ironic since that's supposed to be their style's specialty.

[js]

wing chun in real life never looks like Ip man movie

[assoverteakettle]

I believe wing chun does have techniques to deal with hooks. They include a tan sao (palm up block) to the inside of the hook, the biu (finger jab/straight stiff arm). The problem is that it's too slow to execute and does not work in real life application. Everything works in a game of chi sao but doesn't when you get in the ring against someone who doesn't give a damn about your wing chun and isn't going to play chi sao.

[michaelcook]

I think a better observation of this video is to teach why head movement is important. He's doing that stiff upright head to maintain body mechanical cohesion to punch super hard theory that Wing Chun loves. Spam straight line punches as that's the closest point from a to b and you're unbeatable, so they say. The theory crafting fails the test.

[farkinarkin]

__1__ The ref should have stopped it right after the WC guy was standing dazed. Clearly he was no longer protecting himself (or remembering where he was). That could have be a lot worse if the boxer went full on after that.
__2__ If you don't close in, what are you actually "trapping"? Nothing. You are just parrying --- like that will ever work on someone changing angles, levels and distance.
__3__ Shouldn't the WC guy be hitting the biceps to discourage hooks?

Dunno. I think the WC guy could have done better. Standing around letting the boxer work his angles will just lead to you getting K.O.ed.

[drkaufman]

When I was training in wing chun, they always told me round punches are easier to handle than straight ones. I never got the opportunity to find out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DenshaOtoko]

Some Wing Chun has hooks. I think maybe he hasn't learned how to spar with Chum Kiu yet?

[tchaliz]

Win chung can't cope with any real contact fighting sport 😂😂

[pedrozalba]

hi there . i have some old videos of hard sparring with wing chun, not on the ring sadly. do i send them to an email <3?. Love the channel

[ThePurussaurus]

A problem I see quite often with wing chun (or also other kung fu) guys is that their attacks seem to lack the destructive power they would need to command respect from their opponents. I mean the WC guy in the video seems to have one or another opportunity to attack through the center while the boxer is attacking with hooks from the outside and also does so. But the boxer's strikes are way more powerful and at the same time he seems quite tough and can take punches.
The trapping range needs more grappling to properly work imo but also the capability to stay inside of it. Since the boxer is very nimble and quickly weaving in and out of range the WC guy has quite a hard time catching up with him to do his thing.
... yeah it was tough for WC-man, getting matched up against someone who knows how to hurt and is hard to hurt while at the same time lagging behind in those capabilities himself.
I still appreciate his effort, though - most WC-people would not dare to get in a ring to try and prove their abilities.
Anyway I still think that there might be some merit in all that trapping-range-work. It might be difficult since it requires the ability to close and create distance to stay in the intermediate kind of range as well as a solid understanding of grappling and striking and -more importantly- the combination of those two arts, but I just am not convinced that it wouldn't work at all under any circumstances. Since grappling and striking are being trained seperately from each other almost exclusively in any martial art/combat sport that has application-oriented training methods I see the fusion of those two "worlds" as a field where one or another discovery can still be made (or rediscoveries if we assume that people inventing tma back in the day knew how to apply the stuff they needed to survive and pass on to further generations).
Regardless of all - I will continue to experiment with that whole matter and one day -hopefully- might be able to show some meaningful results, since measurable results are worth indefinitely more than any words in a YT-comment.
Until then - stay strong and keep training, everybody!

[rickyteee]

I’ve boxed and was a wing Chun student for several years. I’ve seen Wing Chun people come to boxing gym and if they spar a boxer, they’d get wrecked.

[TheBest-sdqf]

Thats some crazy referee..that dude was out on his feet and had no business continuing..he had no business fighting in the first place really.

[bougeac]

The problem is that there is almost an arrogance in wing chun circles that “the straight line always beats the circle” and consequently many never test this assumption in a live environment. There ARE defences trained against “John Wayne” punches like biu da or tan da for example but these are often trained in a static/clinical manner, once hands start flying in a “proper spar”, where things get unpredictable, these methods often fail. Here’s the thing, once you start sparring with decent pressure you begin to see what really works and for me hook defense is either utilize sim fa (methods of evasion utilizing bobbing/weaving/slipping (see biu jee form) if you see the hook early or use a hai jhang (rising elbow) tight to the side of the head to block the shot if you see it too late. As a Wc practitioner you HAVE to train under pressure regularly and face non-“traditional” Wc attacks. Problem for many Wc practitioners is that they may spar hard but are still only working against Wc tools. You’ll never get the angles and energies necessary to get comfortable facing things like overhands and hooks…

[Shuumai-qqob]

"Wing Chun can't deal with fights" here, fixed your title for you

[cheatbluevii]

If Kung Fu practitioners were to become outfighters and focus on defense and counters, then I would see it becoming effective.

[Sovvolf]

So. Yeah, its been mentioned that the theory is thar straight punches beat hooks. So Wing Chun should be perfectly suited for that considering that the art is built purely around flurries of straights.

However, they aren't and why is that? Well look at how a boxer stands and how they throw a jab. They stand somewhat bladed, they step, turn the hip, turn the shoulder, then punch the jab out or the cross.

The boxer is making that straight reach as far as it can. The boxer is using it to control the distance. They are making use of the range. Straights are fast long range weapons. Hooks are mid to short range weapons.

Boxers use straights to either work their way in to hooking range, or to prevent the other person for getting into that range. They're using them to set them hooks up and control the ring. That's why they're effective.

Now how does a Chunner use straights? Well first off they stand rather square, they don't turn the body with the straights chosing to fire them straight down the centre line. They also do this moving forward in a rapid fire way. Which is basically walking straight into hooking range. Where straight shots lose that advantage of range control. They also don't do this through setting up superior footwork or head movement. Its more or less like a straight line of rapid fisticuffs.

Which is like walking straight into a trap... You've presented yourself gift wrapped with a bow...

Also, don't get me wrong. I enjoy Wing Chun. I've done Wing Chun and as Jerry will attest, I've used Wing Chun in live situations like the cage... it can work. Though you need to know how to box. You need that foundation. Its a great supplement but its missing too much.

[ken]

I wouldnt call him a boxer more like a brawler

[GilbertArcand]

They win belts by training against wooden dummies.

[stephanwatson]

0:47 Watch Kamaru Usman's ko of Jorge Masvidal; to ko him, Usman handtrapped to right hand. Jorge himself knocked out Darren Till, with a shifting handtrap to hook combos.
What wing chun people don't understand, is that trapping is a moment in time; the main place 'chi sau sensitivity' style trapping works, is in grappling (like when you're ontop in mount position).

P.s. Also, Darren himself actually knocked Jorge down with a handtrap combo, early in their fight

[marcustrebonius]

Wing Chun is very logical, but it often fails to deal with the "chaos" of wild, fast hooks. Xi La La from Taiwan had to adapt his Wing Chun over time to deal with boxers.