GlobeBusters tried debunking me ... by getting everything wrong

The channel 'GlobeBusters' recently did a livestream covering my video about WW2 navigation, and they claimed it categorically proves the Earth can't be a globe ... except the figures they present for this argument are very inaccurate

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#globe #science #flatearth #WW2 #Knickebein

[OptimusPhillip]

Flerfer 1: "A beam narrow enough to guide the plane wouldn't diffract."
Scientist: "Yes, but they didn't actually create a beam that narrow. They created a pair of beams wide enough to diffract, then situated them so that they would have a narrow enough overlap to guide the plane."
Flerfer 2: "You're wrong, because a beam narrow enough to guide the plane wouldn't diffract."

[nickchivers]

Flerfer: You cant cross beams at that range
Dave: ok explain
Flerfer: Have you ever seen Ghostbusters?

[GretgorPooper]

An even better argument is: if the Earth was flat, why would they even need an equisignal? They could just beam the one thing at a high frequency and be done with it.

[MoreEriksson]

Last time I was this early, a 24 hour sun in antarctic was enough evidence to prove a globe

[RocketboyX]

"We're not going to play the video because it doesn't say what we said it said".

[whiptonguebulborb]

Globebusters are the funniest flat earth debunkers ever

[olafbaeyens]

On a flat Earth these beams would not even be needed..

[dnomyarnostaw]

"Beams prove the Earth is Flat"
"Bombers and the Navy use Globe Charts to calculate distances to Targets and Ports. There aren't any Flat Earth Charts""
Crickets

[DrakonPhD]

They DO realize that the Germans accounted for the curvature of the earth for things like V1 and V2 rockets, right?

[whichgodofthousandsmeansno]

All I know is for 500 years we have been able to circumnavigate the earth and no one ever hit a dome, ice wall or edge. "Interesting".

[fnunez]

This kind of reasoning always perplexes me. There are hundreds of bits of easily verifiable evidence that the earth is a globe, but they find one piece of evidence that may possibly contradict it, and that means the earth must be flat. That's like me finding one person in China who doesn't eat rice and concluding that the Chinese eat nothing but chocolate.

[ImSweetKiss]

This very particular thing proves the earth is flat, as long as you don't read anything else in the same paragraph.

[RedTail-]

"McKeegan will probably not do a follow-up rebuttal"...

Poor guy. Luckily he included the word "probably" so he doesn't look like a complete and total fool. He can lean hard on that one word.

[tysondog]

It's no wonder they are trying to convince people Not to watch this video, it's very, very embarrassing for Witsit and Globe Busters. Very embarrassing...

[philippevial]

I love that flerfs keep trying to use physics to support their beliefs, and physics keeps kicking them in the balls. You'd think they would grow tired of it.

[DrSenku-vxdb]

At this point i feel like they're getting things wrong on purpose so their arguments feel plausible.

[Karras]

I think the real absurdity is the mentality that the whole globe model comes crashing down if you can just poke holes in one specific phenomenon. But on balance of probability, if you have a mountain of evidence for something and one thing that might potentially be at odds with that, which is more likely? That the mountain is wrong or that we simply do not fully understand the one thing? And that is even granting that the objections to the one are well founded, which as we know full well they are typically not.

[tarkadahl]

A flerf getting things wrong? Never! I've seen them manage to almost put socks on before

[ChockHolocaust]

What these people who suggest it would not work (which is bizarre anyway since it is a matter of history that it did work) are either failing to understand - or more likely simply glossing over - is that Luftwaffe medium bombers typically operated at between 15, 000 and 20, 000 feet, so they were not receiving a signal sent out horizontally which could be blocked by the curve of the earth; the beam was of necessity, aimed slightly upwards, although not by much since the Knickbein transmission antenna on Stollberg for example, was already set up on ground which was 43 metres above sea level and the antenna itself was of course quite tall and the signal beam spread out a bit too of course. So in fact the later antennas were made smaller since they didn't need to be up very high anyway and they thus presented a less detectable target themselves which was also harder for the Allies to target.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the system wasn't simply two signals which crossed over a target, it comprised numerous signals of various types, frequencies and widths, whereby the bomber would basically fly along the corridor of one beam until it received the signal of a crossing beam which represented the Initial Point for the bombing run. Upon crossing this, the bomber's targeting equipment would start a timer, which would then mean the aircraft had to be flown somewhat more precisely on its inbound target heading. If all went well, the bomber would cross a second beam signal which in combination with a specific airspeed and heading and of course the timer, would then trigger bomb release a few kilometres from the intended bomb impact point to allow the bombs to fall in a trajectory which would hopefully impact the target accurately assuming the winds had been correctly predicted.

It's worth noting too that different types of bombs were used throughout a raid to optimise the effectiveness of the attack, so the beams themselves were not always critical for the success of a raid. Initially there would be lead pathfinder aircraft using the beams as a primary navigation means, then dropping flares and incendiaries to help to illuminate the target by starting fires on the ground and parachute flares assisting following aircraft waves to confirm their inbound target heading. This would be followed by deep-penetrating high explosive munitions with a slight delay fuse, intended to drill under the ground on impact, then explode to rip open gas mains, creating even more fires in the target area. With the target then well illuminated by fires and gas explosions, more heavy bombs would be dropped on that conflagration to cause shockwave and blast damage to the target. Of course at this point there was little need for the radio system as the target would be lit up like a Christmas tree by then.

It was a very effective system, but later in the war it was something of a double-edged sword; since the beams had to be set up and tested earlier in the day prior to a raid. Thus their detection in the morning or afternoon effectively let the Allies know which target was going to be attacked later that day and the fact that the Enigma Code had also been cracked at that point helped too, as did daylight reconnaissance, since it was kind of hard to hide the preparations for a bombing raid what with fuel and bombs all over an airfield being readied for an upcoming night raid. Armed with this knowledge and with night fighters equipped with radar themselves, barrier patrols could be set up to intercept incoming bombers and their loiter times and patrol areas were planned carefully, meaning they were then fairly successful in intercepting stuff without having to search too hard.

All of this is a moot point anyway; any pilot will tell you VOR, ADF and ILS systems do work and are used all over the world, every day. They are a basic part of navigation for aeroplanes; anyone who cares to do their PPL will see this for themselves and indeed will come across occasions where the terrain can occasionally have an impact on their effectiveness.

[RobinTFH]

very interesting video, Dave. My father was in the RAF during WW2, working on early RADAR ranging and other radio systems. I remember his telling me about the different systems used to enable accurate aircraft navigation, including how the curvature of the Earth had to be accounted for.. He remained in the MoD until his too-early death in 1983, working on RADAR systems that are still in use today. Thanks again, Dave.