Does The Lumix S5ii Lose PDAF in FHD?

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CAMERAS:
My Main Cam (Lumix S5ii)

My B-Cam (Lumix S5)

My C-Cam (Lumix S1)

PRIME LENSES:
Panasonic LUMIX 24mm F1.8

Panasonic LUMIX 35mm F1.8

Panasonic LUMIX 85mm F1.8

ZOOM LENSES:
Sigma 28-70 F2.8

Panasonic LUMIX 16-35 F4

Panasonic LUMIX 70-200 F4

AUDIO SETUP:
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Tascam DR60 MKii

Hollyland Lark 150

LIGHTING SETUP
Godox LA200d

Colbor CL60

Godox SL60w

Smallrig Softbox

DESK & COMPUTING
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Computer Monitor (Viewsonic ColorPro VP2786-4K)

Logitech Craft Keyboard

Logitech M590 Mouse

Samsung T5 SSD 1TB

SanDisk G-Drive 6TB

It seems that most reviewers missed this out when they looked at the Lumix S5ii, including myself. The AF system does indeed go back to contrast detect autofocus when you shoot in framerates of 50fps and higher in Full HD (1080p).

I've had a lot of people reach out to me asking if this was the case, and while I haven't seen any official spec sheets to state that this is the case, I decided to test it for myself and it is evident that you lose PDAF in 1080p when shooting at 50fps and higher.

For me, this isn't a big deal at all since I never shoot in FHD, like, ever. But for those out there who wanted to utilise the higher frame rates and get the full sensor readout in 50fps then this could be a stopping block for you.

Ultimately, I love Lumix cameras and this channel is dedicated to providing as much knowledge and info on the ecosystem as possible.

Thanks for watching!

[JoshCameron]

What do you guys think about this? Is it a dealbreaker for you?

[MayurMahapatraFilms]

Thank you Josh for this video. You might shoot in 1080p but many creators like me shoot in those resolution because of the space constraint. To be honest I am disappointed with LUMIX not because of the AF, but they hid this from users. This is a serious cripple hammer effect in LUMIX series. They could have made it plain and simple. So many quirks.. 🙃

[studiomadrid]

Thanks for sharing Josh. These details should not be discovered later, they should just be part of the camera specs. We know there is a crop in 4K 50/60p and we accept that, any other specs like this should be clear from the beginning. This is not a big deal, but I think Lumix did know this fact before. Cheers!

[thanhtung]

I have been using this camera for nearly a month and have updated the firmware to version 1.1, my results are as follows: With the AF-C mode taking pictures, the phase-detection AF speed is very fast, AF-S seems to use DFD so focus a little slower. In some cases, when the exposure meter (MM) is below 0 it will also change from PDAF to DFD (most visible, it happens when you use AF-C to taking stills). At filming in addition to video recording modes below 30fps and 4k and APS-C (30->60fps) and 6k Opengate, other filming modes will return to contrast focus (DFD) (Another bug problem if the ISO is higher than 12800 when filming it will switch to DFD focus). At 120fps subject tracking will not be available. On the Lumix homepage 🇯🇵 it is noted that Automatic Detection is not available with high frame rates even with the s5iiX. So I think this is the hardware limitation of the device. Pretty sad for so many people pre-ordering.

[JoshPostVlogs]

I know this is an old video. But I had this problem over the weekend. I typically shoot in 1080 and I was doing a sports commercial where I needed 60p. As I was shooting, the autofocus was crap, which really frustrated me. Now it all makes sense. This really does suck. I understand going with contrast AF in 120p, for example, but 60p is a standard frame rate which should have been covered by phase detect.

[claudiuavram]

For someone who shots wedding films and need good AF in 50fps (for some slow mo) without any crop it is kinda frustrating. They say that pdaf degrades the image quality and that's why contrast detect af is more friendly and suitable for high frame rates. Maybe, but still, 50fps isn't that high and Sony and Canon made pdaf for all types of video profiles and you can't say that their image quality is bad.
Hoping Panasonic will give us a firmware update, even a paid one to let us use pdaf in all recording formats.

[edkastudio]

I did a lot of tests and settings and comparisons, so for those who filmed in fhd 108050p, the solution is to choose MP4 4K 50P 100MB/S, the files are the same size (that is, you will record the same amount as in fhd) and you get better quality, af, audio 2 tracks, not 4 so I recommend this solution, I also use it, the picture is beautiful and there is no problem with the af :)

[garypranzo]

I added a Sigma 16-28 full frame lens specifically to use in crop modes but added benefit of have Ultra Wide for Full frame mode but I shoot indoors 2-4ft from my subject at all times. I think for most the 20-60 wide Kit lens will handle the crop just fine. In fact I accidentally set APS-C crop with the 20-60 lens on a shoot and only realized it after the shoot and everything turned out great. I do remember backing up a bit more. I think it would not be a big deal if Panasonic gave us clarity on this. I do not think it is in the manual. Maybe a firmware update that warns you when you will lose PDAF when switching to Full Frame 50/60 or an Icon like the Ibis icon when PDAF is on.

[MicroFourNerds]

Definitive answer. Well done! 💪

(No idea why people care but shhh hahaha each to their own! I could have honestly had this camera for 5 years and never noticed 😂)

[PracticalpVideo]

Phase detect AF in FHD 1080p only in APSC mode? My Sony a6600 and a6400 have been doing that for years, and also have PDAF at 120fps. I don't use 4K. Got them both used. The Lumix S5ii seems like a good 4K camera with PDAF. Can only guess Lumix may stop supporting 1080p using all camera features.

[sergiypervun]

Hey, Josh, please ask them to fix it in the next firmware update;) It's crucial for a lot of people.

[theiansm]

It's not about using just FHD60, it's about using the full censor at 50p/60p.

[MichaelNguyenn]

That is such a bummer for wedding videographers. I shoot 1080p 60p at weddings because of its post-production versatility and having the full focal length makes it convenient in tight situations. As much as I love Panasonic, this such a disappointing update considering Sony has been able to do 1080p 60p PDAF at a full-frame for a while now.

[sergiypervun]

Is it a joke?! If not... to be honest this is ridiculous. I've already preordered S5IIX but this is a CRITICAL factor why I'm considering canceling my order after this NEWS. Many of us are tired of these dirty marketing tricks similar to what Canon and Sony offer. Actually, this is the reason why I refused to buy Sony and Canon. So if this is the game that nowadays Panasonic is going to play - too bad for both them and us. I believe many people including me hoped to have at least 1080p 50/60/120 FPS full frame with phase detect AF to upscale it after to 4k as a compromise, or even just use FHD footage which I used to do regularly, however, looks like Panasonic choose a similar tricky game with their customers to differentiate specific target audiences with different camera models. From a business standpoint, it's smart and reasonable. But it's a bit too many limitations for these specific models - S5II/S5IIX. If they are serious about competition with A7IV and R6II should update it in the very next firmware. It's a shame. If not I'll better add 1.5k and buy Sony A7SIII. Thank you, Josh, for this important factor.

[coreymullins]

Not really a dealbreaker but just a very very strange omission. I shoot 4k because I paid for it 😂But 1080 is still totally acceptable and sometimes preferred still today. Just bizarre is all I can say, made worse by the fact that it wasn't disclosed pretty much anywhere.

[claudiuavram]

Thanks for listening us and making this test! A little disappointed but it is what it is. Sony makes AF reliable no matter the frame rates or formats. Panasonic are still playing with our sensible nerves. 🙄

[OscarCloud]

Have you tried the phantom luts yet Josh?
I just bought them for my S5 and the results are blowing me away- would be interested to see what you think of them compared to the gamut conversion lut you usually use

[SebastianReick]

Maybe this is a naive question, but if 4K is considered the main use case, and the APSC crop is acceptable, what's the point of a full frame camera? Wouldn't an APSC camera with full sensor readout be better because the sensor could be cheaper, smaller and lighter lenses etc. To me it seems the S5ii (and the Sony A7 IV) is basically a hybrid of a FF photo and an APSC video camera.

[thefruit]

i really was looking forward to getting the S5iiX but if there is no Phase AF in any slow motion settings higher than 60, that would be a deal breaker for me. I hope Panasonic will speak about this and weather or not this can be changed via update, before the 5iiX comes out. Because if they only give it to 4k 30p and 1080 30p it is hard to justify the high price tag in comparison to the S5! If they really havent disclosed this beforehand I think it would heavily destroy trust in the brand.

[Eyshildtv]

Must be planned in a further firmware update.
I wish they add a 1440p.
I shoot in 4K to make my video in 1440p. But i wish i had the possiblity directly to save space and performance and also maybe have some HFR in 1440p.