Oldhammer is a Tough Subject

I explain my thoughts on Oldhammer

#tabletopwargames #warhammerageofsigmar #tabletopwargaming #gamesworkshop #warhammer40k #warhammeroldworld #oldhammer

[KrullMaestaren]

The reasons why people might be interested in "Oldhammer" can be so different...
* Nostalgia and relive childhood
* Casual > Tournament
* Army sizes
* The old rules
* The old minis
* Goblin green bases and brightly painted minis
and so on :)

The OldHammer I remember was about fun & creativity. We built terrain on our own, painted minis and wasn't influenced by YT. A game was about just having fun or to see how a scenario would end up if we mixed this terrain with those minis and maybe some victory conditions. Minis were cute, bright, colorful and had goblin green bases. Rules were a bit wonky and unbalanced but we made our own rules to compensate. You want to bring those OP Terminators, then I get to bring some extra firepower... And let us not forget the lore that was full of unexplained mysteries and strange, dark events :)

It feels like NewHammer is only about winning tournament with rules that are still unbalanced and consumption in the form of purchasing the latest meta list that is based on GW stock.

I am currently thinking on building a Dark Elf army next but need to paint a bit more from my current backlog. Why? Because it is that one army I wanted as a kid but could not afford collecting. I will use the OPR rules instead of anything from GW for a faster and more modern game but is thinking on writing my own rule system (have past professional game design experience) because there are so many things I want to try and improve (even have some interesting ideas already).


We are lucky to be here, there are so many fun possibilities today :)

[MajorSvenGaming]

I have given up on modern 40k.

I play 3rd edition 40k and 6th WFB.

AoS is still playable however in its modern version.

[HeadCannonPrime]

IMO the biggest hurdle to oldhammer is people think newer editions are somehow better more complete games. (They are not. Sometimes they are MORE broken.)
Someting i learned in the boardgame community. An old game you havent played before is just a NEW game.
If you want to get someone to play an oldhammer, just ask. I have never had a shortage of players. (Also how many regular players do you need? Ive been in a club with 2-6 people for 20 years)

The problem with new units isnt as bad as you think. Harlequins, knights, custodes etc. ALL have fan codexes out there on the internet for the popular oldhammer editions. (Often with better balance than GW because of open source playtesting and no $ for points influence).

[Lordvader]

Rules or genestealer cults are in White Dwarf and compatible with 3rd-5th

Also the create your own vehicle rules allow for knights. I guess my point is the game was much more of a sandbox. If you are passionate enough you can find people to play with!

[Azazel-zvfy]

Some of what you say makes sense, and some of it is a bit weird. You seem to not make any distinction between models of an era and rules of an era. It's totally possible to use Primnaris models as Space Marines, and it's totally possible to use the "new" Harlequin models with the Rogue Trader rules.

[rrwholloway]

I’ve had this issue with getting my son into Warhammer. I know and love 2nd Edition 40k and 5th edition WFB. I love the creativity, the storytelling, the smaller scale.
I hate the newer ‘tournament first’ - someone must win’ - look at my titan scale creep mentality of these newer editions. 9th and 10th were impenetrable to me with all the faction specific stratagems….

The boy is trying out 2nd edition.
Oldhammer forever.

[reversegoat]

If you find someone who likes 5th, and you like 3rd, you compromise like adults. That's part of oldhammer. You can't just find a like-minded individual, fold your arms, and give up because of a slight edition difference.

[xyonblade]

I like this video. The part of my brain that is hard to turn off is telling me to say, there's the 2nd edition genestealer cult army list that you can convert to newer editions with a little work, and I just want to say it in a friendly way, people who love the hobby can do it, but I also want to say I understand your point that there wasn't an official genestealer cult army in 3rd edition or other editions until they were re-introduced, I get that point, but they did exist in 2nd. But yeah, not all factions had army lists in all editions, a very fair point. but yeah harlequins were another 2nd edition thing that existed that could be put into other editions.

[arthogof]

I managed to find the 1997 Warhammer Lizard men book the other day! I love the older books and the creativity and thought that was in them

[radeadcool]

Brainwashing my children is my answer! There no gaming clubs anymore in my area annd we are in the middle of no where in Australia. Just 3 to 4 years more to go! But I miss the FW imperial armour books.

[mathiasbartl]

Now you got any advantage of playing this big commercial product neutralized, and you might as well play your house rules with random minis, but there's probably reasons why many people are not doing that already

[pforson]

Oldhammer is not about the rules, it‘s about the miniatures.
It is about the nostalgia of collecting the army you wanted as a kid.
I now have a 4th edition Dwarf army and I love it.

[BX-advocate]

5:57 No primaris...good they don't make sense in Warhammer anyway.

[TheFlashman]

I'm pretty sure they had Harlequins in 5th because they were in the 4th edition codex 😂

[lamMeTV]

Older rules arent for comfort. Noone plays Chess cause its comfortable. Older rules are there cause you KNOW that they will be good. That they will be fun.

[KristopherMelin-li]

My original 1978 Advanced D&D books still work. I have dozens of original modules. They began the "updating game" back in the late 1980s. I've played games off and on since then. Some were new, so they had nothing to unlearn. Others had played and were familiar already. Bottom line, if it worked in 1982, it'll still work now.

[davidcashin]

You have covered the combinations and permutations very well. And I can see your argument about new players perhaps. However, there are many many folk who play monopoly or chess or Avalon Hill games that haven't changed in decades/centuries. And let's face it none of us play the same game exclusively week to week year to year. For instance I play BattleTech and Full Thrust which haven't changed since the 1990's. The final question is do you want to be in a continual tail chase throwing money at GW for tournament play or do you want to play a stable rules set with the moderate disadvantage of probably having to be miniatures agnostic? New players still play old games, and with the entry and even the sustainment cost of 40K being ludicrously high it is probably a better way to start and keep going. Not that there is anything wrong with expensive tournament play, it is just not for everyone. Now on the plus side. Thanks for the Shore Hammer poster in the back! Did not know that existed. I will have to keep an eye out for it next year.

[mortthepirate]

*cuddles up with my 3e rulebooks* soon my precious, soon they will remember your beauty

[edwardblacklock]

I have built a community at my local club who play 2nd edition. From 2 of us who began playing games there we now have a dozen players locally who are interested and playing. This has happened because others have seen us play and talking to others about why we enjoy playing 2nd ed. Sometimes you have to build a community, which is work but well worth it. Also there is nothing stopping you from using new models in old games. That said the joy of this hobby is it is a broad church and you can dive into whatever peeks your interest.

[MateuszKiwalczyk]

I think the issues you mention are a bit of phallacies. I mean a little.

The issues you mention can be turned around I think.

The old editions dont have some models the new editions introduced. But look - New editions also deleted some of those old units and dont support them anymore (IG Conscripts)

Thats actually why Im more an OPR supporter then the Oldhammer one. If I dont have a unit in OPR, I can just create a ruleset quickly in an open calculator. If there is a custom race that I want to make - I can and no corporate shill can tell me otherwise.

The "gamers playing only current edition" is a bit more complex. Of course you are right that its important to play with someone and its really hard to bring change into a group, rather then just join this group. But it is possible. If nobody brought change, then we would still be living in caves.
I think its important to try to accomodate for everyone. Maybe play current edition one time, play another one later, so at the end of the day you can both enjoy time spent together.

But the real issue of it I think is completely elsewhere.
People are afraid to be different. They will pick the "default" choice most of the time. And in this hobby they will stick it to the "safety" of current edition, current errata etc. Thats why so many people worry about models being "Tournament legal" even though they never had nor will take part in a 40k tournament.
I was the same for some time.

But after you open your eyes for the possibility of different rulesets, you realize that well
1st: you can learn and play any system. One massive rulebook is as hard as the other.
2nd: You might actually find rulesets you enjoy more then the default choice.
3rd: You might actually be more creative then you realize, because you force yourself to operate within a limiting framework of current ruleset.

When that barrier drops, its much easier to try and play new and other things. You ACTUALLY become a Wargamer, not just a 40k player.